Who Loves America

[WNYresident]

I don't really care what people want to call these prison camps that detain people in inhumane conditions, separating children from their families, providing inadequate sanitary conditions, and which house not "illegal aliens" but refugees seeking asylum (seeking asylum is not a crime).

But they are concentration camps.

Drop the bs.

Trump as saying there was a crisis months ago while the DNC characters were telling people he's lying and manufacturing a crisis.

Illegally entering the USA over the border is a crime. Going proper to a port of entry and requesting asylum is how it's supposed to be done, correct?

Have you offered a room in your home for a family that illegally entered the USA? If not why not? That would be one less family at one of your concentration camps.

[buffalopundit]

Alan,

When people say concentration camps the first image that comes to mind are German concentration camps.

What is being ran along the southern border are detention centers to hold people who are illegally entering the USA. They also administer health care for those that require it.

If you search concentration camps in google right off the bat at the top of the search


Nazi concentration camps

Auschwitz-Birkenau.
Belzec.
Bergen-Belsen.
Buchenwald.
Chelmno.
Dachau.
Ebensee.
Flossenbürg.


https://www.google.com/search?source...4dUDCAc&uact=5

Saying "concentration camps" is being totally disingenuous to what is happening on the southern border.

Yes. When you run "concentration camps" through Google, the first hit is Nazi concentration camps. I never said or wrote that Trump's concentration camps for asylum-seekers were Nazi concentration camps. I just said they were concentration camps. You added and inferred Nazi, not me.

In any event, an author who literally wrote the book on the world history of concentration camps says these are concentration camps. I'll go with her.

“We have what I would call a concentration camp system,” Pitzer says, “and the definition of that in my book is, mass detention of civilians without trial.”

Historians use a broader definition of concentration camps, as well.

"What's required is a little bit of demystification of it," says Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia. "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz. Concentration camps in general have always been designed—at the most basic level—to separate one group of people from another group. Usually, because the majority group, or the creators of the camp, deem the people they're putting in it to be dangerous or undesirable in some way."

[buffalopundit]

But fun semantic arguments aside, concentration camps merited exactly those two words in that essay. The piece wasn't about concentration camps. It also wasn't about undocumented immigrants, or "illegals" as you guys prefer. It was about three things:

1. That the Republican dogma is quickly shifting from being pro-legal immigrant to just being flat out anti-immigrant. Because Ocasio-Cortez, Tlaib, and Pressley aren't immigrants. Only Omar is, and she's as legal as anyone. They are all citizens of the United States and are as entitled to their opinions as any other person present in the United States, regardless of color, creed, religion, ethnicity, or visa status.

2. That the President is on a kick where he tells people who say things he doesn't like to go back to where they came from. Saying that phrase in a workplace is enough to get you fired. But the President says it not about immigrants, but to native-born women Congressmen who don't like him. That's beyond being unpresidential - it's disgusting.

3. We have a bunch of Republicans in this town - many of whom, I guess, pretend to be friendly to me when they see me out and about. I call them out, each of them - some more than others. Why wouldn't they condemn this? Why do they condone this sort of talk? Because it is fundamentally un-American to tell a dissenting citizen to go back to where they came from because of a political disagreement. Seriously, this entire bulletin board should have emigrated when Obama was President, under that standard. These people can spare me the fake friendliness next time, because Trump's "love me or GTFO" nonsense is the same garbage rednecks told my mom after she came to this country. She spoke with an accent all her life, but to a lot of you that's not proper assimilation. We spoke a different language with each other at home and in public, but that's not proper assimilation to a lot of you. In fact, people are threatened and harassed over speaking a foreign language in the US now. She was told to go back where she came from because she spoke differently or didn't understand quickly enough, and this was while my dad was in the Army, drafted during Vietnam and serving his country.

You think you hold the monopoly on patriotism, but you don't.

So, you all either missed the point or have decided to cherry-pick specific words or phrases to criticize while whistling past the overall point, which is that immigrants have always made this country better. They have always made it richer - in money, culture, knowledge, and experience. They have also forever been the subject of hatred and scorn from native-born Americans. Poles were the butt of jokes. Italians, Slavs, etc. were treated like idiots and garbage. Germans, too. That's before we get to Jews or Muslims, or black or brown people. I mean, Fracasso. Why haven't you properly assimilated and taken an Anglicized surname like Franks?

[WNYresident]

“We have what I would call a concentration camp system,” Pitzer says, “and the definition of that in my book is, mass detention of civilians without trial.”

What is the longest period someone who illegally entered the USA is held at a over crowded USA ran hotel? You want to call it a concentration camp I'll call it an over crowded hotel that also supplies medical assistance.

The flow of people into the USA illegally needs to STOP including the rules of what is considered asylum. Immigration needs to be controlled which means not a burden financially on the people who are here legally. Alan I don't give a **** and many others don't either. People have their own families to care about and their own families to financially help. There are 7+ billion people on earth. WHen does it stop? When we have 20,000,000 a month just crossing over the border into the USA?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Who's Jewish?

I'm sorry. I thought you were Jewish. It was quite confusing because you're a Progressive and Progressives hate Jews. So I'll just drop the first part and leave the second.

No, you don't, and there are a great many dead babushkas and nonnas and babcias and omas who never spoke a word of English, cooked old-world favorites, and loved America.

Speaking the language is a part of assimilation. It's not the only part but it's a big one. I have no doubt those nonnas and babcias and omas mixed in some new-world cooking with those old-world favorites. You made the claim that simply by being here is equal to loving here. That's not right and you know that.

I lived in Southern California and an uber away from the border. I have seen with my own eyes people who are here who have no interest in assimilation. Have no love for the United States at best and downright hate for the United States at worst. They are only concerned with what benefits them.

I have seen the havoc that is created with unfettered immigration. In the society and especially in the schools. I've been to the parent teacher meetings where you are told your child is less of an importance because they have more. I am understanding of the resentment and position that comes from this. Maybe you would have a different view of these things if you and your family were exposed to them.

I don't blame you for not putting your kids education on the front line. In fact, I respect you as a parent for putting their education and well being first. That said, I do find your take on how others who can't afford to or who are not in position to shelter their kids or business the same as you from the comfortable white enclave in Clarence at best hypocritical. I'll leave at worst out of it.

Depends on how you define "hate". I hate Donald Trump and think he's ruining this country. Does that mean I have to leave, now? Why didn't you leave when Obama was President, by that metric? I like this, though - that our country is so free and attractive that you'd better like it the way some arbitrary person demands you to, otherwise go back where you came from.

You don't have to leave but you're free to do so. I never left because I don't hate this country and my loyalty to this country doesn't change with who is in the White House. That said, I was not speaking about you or I. Unlike the people I was speaking about, however, you were born here. And yes, I do have a problem with people who come here from sh*tholes and right after they fill their belly and warm their feet they spit on the doorway of the very house that has provided for them. I hate these people like you hate Donald Trump.

The only difference is that I have lived with these people. Shared schools with these people. Shared public spaces with these. Paid taxes for these people. Not just Federal, State and County taxes but City as well. All to have them spit on my doorway. Can't same the same for you can we? Not just with Trump but with the very people to bang on your keyboard for. I mean I know some may say your tweets and blog posts have real meaning and make a difference but we know they don't. You still get to send your kids to school where every kid speaks English. You get to leave your door unlocked because crime, well crime just doesn't happen where you live.


For the record, I am not anti-immigration. I love that we're a nation of nonnas and babcias and omas as you put it. I wouldn't mind if we mirrored our immigration policy to what Canada or Mexico has but that's just too extreme for people like yourself. So I say let the people come in, through the front door and in line. Feed them and warm them when they get here. But, and this part might be a little difficult for you to grasp, if they don't like it here and want to spew hate about being here, I have no problem telling them to go the f*ck back to where they came from. Or Canada..if they can get in but we both know that's not likely.

I also want to add that I don't like Trump. I do love that he was elected however. I love that elections matter and we don't crown our elected like the left wants. I look forward to the next election, regardless of who wins and I'll love this country the entire time.

Stay cool this weekend. It's gonna be a hot one.

[buffalopundit]

What is the longest period someone who illegally entered the USA is held at a over crowded USA ran hotel? You want to call it a concentration camp I'll call it an over crowded hotel that also supplies medical assistance.

The flow of people into the USA illegally needs to STOP including the rules of what is considered asylum. Immigration needs to be controlled which means not a burden financially on the people who are here legally. Alan I don't give a **** and many others don't either. People have their own families to care about and their own families to financially help. There are 7+ billion people on earth. WHen does it stop? When we have 20,000,000 a month just crossing over the border into the USA?

Asylum seekers and refugees are not in the US illegally, and 20 million people a month are not crossing the border into the US. That would be equal to 6% of the total US population every month. That is rubbish. According to this, the US interdicted 258,000 migrants in the first five months of the 2019 fiscal year, which started in October 2018.

[buffalopundit]

I'm sorry. I thought you were Jewish. It was quite confusing because you're a Progressive and Progressives hate Jews. So I'll just drop the first part and leave the second.

I'm not Jewish. I was born into a Roman Catholic family that did not practice that religion. I spent more time in Temples as a kid, however, than in church because when I'd go to sleep over at a friend's house on a Friday, they'd have Temple and I'd tag along.

Speaking the language is a part of assimilation. It's not the only part but it's a big one. I have no doubt those nonnas and babcias and omas mixed in some new-world cooking with those old-world favorites. You made the claim that simply by being here is equal to loving here. That's not right and you know that.

Not being here - coming here. You don't leave your home, your language, your family, your culture, etc. to go live someplace you hate or don't want to be. You just don't. Sure, I'm sure there are bitter horrible people who match what you're saying, but the overwhelming majority of immigrants are as patriotic and love America as much if not more than a lot of native born Americans.

I lived in Southern California and an uber away from the border. I have seen with my own eyes people who are here who have no interest in assimilation. Have no love for the United States at best and downright hate for the United States at worst. They are only concerned with what benefits them.

Not to be flippant, but the Republican party platform is replete with being only concerned with what benefits the individual. That's why we get trillion dollar tax giveaways to big businesses so they can buy back stocks. America is a capitalist country. In one breath we laud entrepreneurs (who just want to get rich), so why denigrate immigrants who come here to work their butts off and make money?

I have seen the havoc that is created with unfettered immigration. In the society and especially in the schools. I've been to the parent teacher meetings where you are told your child is less of an importance because they have more. I am understanding of the resentment and position that comes from this. Maybe you would have a different view of these things if you and your family were exposed to them.

I am a child of immigrants. Immigrant kids have special needs that are different from other kids. So do kids with mental disabilities, but we don't heap scorn and derision on them.

I don't blame you for not putting your kids education on the front line. In fact, I respect you as a parent for putting their education and well being first. That said, I do find your take on how others who can't afford to or who are not in position to shelter their kids or business the same as you from the comfortable white enclave in Clarence at best hypocritical. I'll leave at worst out of it.

Shelter kids from what? From immigrants? Clarence has loads of immigrants from all over.

Y

ou don't have to leave but you're free to do so. I never left because I don't hate this country and my loyalty to this country doesn't change with who is in the White House. That said, I was not speaking about you or I. Unlike the people I was speaking about, however, you were born here. And yes, I do have a problem with people who come here from sh*tholes and right after they fill their belly and warm their feet they spit on the doorway of the very house that has provided for them. I hate these people like you hate Donald Trump.

Except not one of those four Congresswomen ever said anything to denigrate the United States. And three of them were born here.

The only difference is that I have lived with these people. Shared schools with these people. Shared public spaces with these. Paid taxes for these people. Not just Federal, State and County taxes but City as well. All to have them spit on my doorway. Can't same the same for you can we? Not just with Trump but with the very people to bang on your keyboard for. I mean I know some may say your tweets and blog posts have real meaning and make a difference but we know they don't. You still get to send your kids to school where every kid speaks English. You get to leave your door unlocked because crime, well crime just doesn't happen where you live.

I don't leave my door unlocked. Not every kid in Clarence speaks English, and so what if none of them did? I've lived in lots of places not Clarence, and I've lived around all sorts of people, worked around all sorts of people, been to all sorts of places. I have paid taxes to fund other people's services. That's all part of living in a society. Have I had bad experiences with people who don't look like me? Yes. Do I then automatically impute that experience onto all people who don't look like me, or who look like the person who wronged me? No.

For the record, I am not anti-immigration. I love that we're a nation of nonnas and babcias and omas as you put it. I wouldn't mind if we mirrored our immigration policy to what Canada or Mexico has but that's just too extreme for people like yourself. So I say let the people come in, through the front door and in line. Feed them and warm them when they get here. But, and this part might be a little difficult for you to grasp, if they don't like it here and want to spew hate about being here, I have no problem telling them to go the f*ck back to where they came from. Or Canada..if they can get in but we both know that's not likely.

I don't have a problem with Canadian merit-based immigration, and we have a similar situation. But Canada also opens its doors to refugees and doesn't shut it closed, like we have. Its government hasn't taken the last 2 years to separate and demonize select classes of immigrant or exclude immigrants from certain countries with weak justification. All we're doing right now by turning our backs on immigrants, and treating the ones down south worse than cattle (as an aside, if say WBEN found out that dogs were being treated in conditions similar to those found in those camps we discussed earlier, they'd have the SPCA in studio and tons of sob stories about the poor dogs. These are kids, and we're sitting here discussing the finer points of entitlements to services in schools by foreign born kids.) If Trump had said, we're going to change the laws and here's how we'll do it, that's fine. But he didn't, he went a lot further than that down a much darker road, and that poisoned any chance he might have had of moving that agenda. He is his own worst enemy.

I also want to add that I don't like Trump. I do love that he was elected however. I love that elections matter and we don't crown our elected like the left wants. I look forward to the next election, regardless of who wins and I'll love this country the entire time.

Stay cool this weekend. It's gonna be a hot one.

I think Donald Trump will go down in history not only as the worst President of this era, but he will be seen as an aberration. Elections matter, and we don't "crown" people for sure, but when you have a two-party system and one party goes that far off the rails, there will be a dramatic correction.

Stay cool, too.

[WNYresident]

Asylum seekers and refugees are not in the US illegally, and 20 million people a month are not crossing the border into the US. That would be equal to 6% of the total US population every month. That is rubbish. According to this, the US interdicted 258,000 migrants in the first five months of the 2019 fiscal year, which started in October 2018.

They are here illegally when they cross the border illegally instead of going to a port of entry the legal way.

Violation 8 United states code 1325. I think I head the expert in the video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEFoi_leYDw

First please read what I said. I thought we are talking about people here illegally? Lefty or I haven't mentioned anything about refugees.

Here is what I said

WHen does it stop? When we have 20,000,000 a month just crossing over the border into the USA?

I didn't say there are currently 20,000,000 a month crossing over the border. I said when does it stop? When we have 20,000,000 a month just crossing......



https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Check out May 2019. 144,278 Apprehensions/Inadmissible. That is 144,278 too many. I don't know what else to tell you.

If you want to seek asylum you do it the legal way at a port of entry otherwise you are here illegally.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Not being here - coming here. You don't leave your home, your language, your family, your culture, etc. to go live someplace you hate or don't want to be. You just don't. Sure, I'm sure there are bitter horrible people who match what you're saying, but the overwhelming majority of immigrants are as patriotic and love America as much if not more than a lot of native born Americans.

Sorry, this is simply not true. When the rear view mirror is Venezuela, Qutar, or Somolia you do not care where you go. You go to wherever will take you. You don't care if it's Germany, Canada or The United States. You go to wherever you take you. Being somewhere, existing somewhere does not equate to loving where you are.

You know, love is the bloom of understanding. You can't love someone or something until you understand it. When immigrants come through the front door they learn about America. They come to understand America. Eventually, they come to love America. Deeply.

I do agree that the overwhelming majority of immigrants are as patriotic and love America. I love them as well. I respect them for coming through the front door and respecting the process. That process has worked for 100s of years. So it's with great frustration why progressives want to throw that process to the side and just allow anyone to come in, in any order, and without following the path that has worked.

Not to be flippant, but the Republican party platform is replete with being only concerned with what benefits the individual. That's why we get trillion dollar tax giveaways to big businesses so they can buy back stocks. America is a capitalist country. In one breath we laud entrepreneurs (who just want to get rich), so why denigrate immigrants who come here to work their butts off and make money?

Heh. I thought you were a Jew and you think I am a Republican. Today we learned a little bit about each other.

Shelter kids from what? From immigrants? Clarence has loads of immigrants from all over.

Must be a huge culture shock to send kids to school with the children of doctors from India. You have said in the

Except not one of those four Congresswomen ever said anything to denigrate the United States. And three of them were born here.

I am going to take some time to source my position on this.

I don't have a problem with Canadian merit-based immigration, and we have a similar situation. But Canada also opens its doors to refugees and doesn't shut it closed, like we have. Its government hasn't taken the last 2 years to separate and demonize select classes of immigrant or exclude immigrants from certain countries with weak justification. All we're doing right now by turning our backs on immigrants, and treating the ones down south worse than cattle (as an aside, if say WBEN found out that dogs were being treated in conditions similar to those found in those camps we discussed earlier, they'd have the SPCA in studio and tons of sob stories about the poor dogs. These are kids, and we're sitting here discussing the finer points of entitlements to services in schools by foreign born kids.) If Trump had said, we're going to change the laws and here's how we'll do it, that's fine. But he didn't, he went a lot further than that down a much darker road, and that poisoned any chance he might have had of moving that agenda. He is his own worst enemy.

Well I learned something else new today. We can agree on merit-based immigration.

Yes, Canada does open its doors to refugees and I don't have a problem with the United States doing that either. I think what's going on in Toronto and how it has become the New York City of this Century in terms of being a melting pot shows that merit-based immigration and welcoming refugees can be wildly successful.

But can we also agree that because Canada only shares a border with the US it doesn't face the same type of immigration and more specifically illegal immigration issues? And because of this the United States faces.

Regarding the treatment of those at the border, I don't like it but I like less the fact that it's been that way for a while. They were treated the same under Obama but it wasn't an issue then. Maybe we should look at sending those folks to Canada and Norway and Denmark and France. I think it would be pretty easy to fund the flights in donations. Don't you? Let's send those looking for a better life to places that live better than we do. I mean for years the left has been telling us just how better these places treat people. Let's do them a solid and get them to a land of milk and honey.

I think Donald Trump will go down in history not only as the worst President of this era, but he will be seen as an aberration. Elections matter, and we don't "crown" people for sure, but when you have a two-party system and one party goes that far off the rails, there will be a dramatic correction.

Meh. The economy is doing fine and once you leave California and New York you realize that a lot of people appreciate someone telling the Progressive and Socialist left to STFU. Trump is like the goon on a good hockey team. He is not your favorite player but he beats the sh*t out of the other teams goon and distracts their good players from playing well. So you tolerate him.

It's cute you don't think the left isn't the party that's off the rails. Like I said before, the left is trying to position Nancy Pelosi as too far right.

[grump]

The Democratic Totalitarian Party is the party of totalitarianism. To fight over fine distinctions among Nazis, Communists and Facists is a waste of time that Democratic Totalitarians love to focus on rather than on their Totalitarianism. It’s a party of elitism, anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, in fact anti-religion generally except for Islam which shares the belief of Democratic Totalitarians that government is their religion and their religion is their government.

[buffalopundit]

They are here illegally when they cross the border illegally instead of going to a port of entry the legal way.

Violation 8 United states code 1325. I think I head the expert in the video below

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEFoi_leYDw

First please read what I said. I thought we are talking about people here illegally? Lefty or I haven't mentioned anything about refugees.

Here is what I said



I didn't say there are currently 20,000,000 a month crossing over the border. I said when does it stop? When we have 20,000,000 a month just crossing......



https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration

Check out May 2019. 144,278 Apprehensions/Inadmissible. That is 144,278 too many. I don't know what else to tell you.

If you want to seek asylum you do it the legal way at a port of entry otherwise you are here illegally.

Except the Trump Administration has prohibited and otherwise thwarted asylum seekers from crossing at ports of entry and requesting asylum.

[buffalopundit]

No one:

Not a single person:

"Grump":

The Democratic Totalitarian Party is the party of totalitarianism. To fight over fine distinctions among Nazis, Communists and Facists is a waste of time that Democratic Totalitarians love to focus on rather than on their Totalitarianism. It’s a party of elitism, anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism, in fact anti-religion generally except for Islam which shares the belief of Democratic Totalitarians that government is their religion and their religion is their government.

[WNYresident]

Except the Trump Administration has prohibited and otherwise thwarted asylum seekers from crossing at ports of entry and requesting asylum.

He has? You mean someone seeking asylum can not go to a proper port of entry? Plus why are they not asking for asylum at the first country they enter? IE like Mexico.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Except the Trump Administration has prohibited and otherwise thwarted asylum seekers from crossing at ports of entry and requesting asylum.

Asylum has two basic requirements. First, an asylum applicant must establish that he or she fears persecution in their home country. Second, the applicant must prove that he or she would be persecuted on account of one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group. source

Crippling poverty or subhuman conditions are not one of the 5 reasons to grant asylum. The current administration is simply enforcing the rules that already are in place. Which, sadly, is a new trend compared to previous administrations. I know there are lots of complaints about the new push to deny asylum requests by people who have passed through other countries first but if you fear your life those other countries will scratch that itch of safety.

Let's be honest here for a second. Can we be honest? Asylum was being abused to circumvent immigration policy. Nothing was thwarted other than not following the law.

[WNYresident]

Let's be honest here for a second. Can we be honest? Asylum was being abused to circumvent immigration policy. Nothing was thwarted other than not following the law.

Laws that were created before Trump was elected.