Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Ellicott Creek floods again - quarry still pumping

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,868

    Ellicott Creek floods again - quarry still pumping

    Well, even though Supervisor Bob Giza says,"Theres no flooding in Lancaster." The Lancaster Police are restricting traffic on Stony Rd because water is once again flowing over the roadway - in not one but two large ares.

    Also the pumps at the stone quarry are still pumping full force into Ellicott Creek with the blessings of our Town Board.






    ELLICOTT CREEK Flooding: Town Of Lancaster adds to flood risks for downstream neighbors, Town Government fully aware and takes no corrective actions:







    According to their study these areas are affected: the AMHERST, NORTH FOREST TO HOPKINS, MAPLE TO FRENCH INCLUDING GETZVILLE. IN WILLIAMSVILLE, LEHN SPRINGS DRIVE. IN TONAWANDA, ELLICOTT CREEK RD TO I-290, COLVIN TO NIAGARA FALLS BLVD. IN CHEEKTOWAGA AND LANCASTER...AERO DRIVE AREA...BOWMANSVILLE FIRE STATION AREA. UB BIKE PATH FLOODED.
    __________________________________________________ ___________

    Ask your self this question; Why do they only monitor the Ellicott Creek from WILLIAMSVILLE to Tonawanda Creek. Theres no mention of Lancaster's 18+ Millions being pumped into the Creek Yearly - WHY?
    ___


    From just one location in Lancaster :18 Million gallons of water a year + the natural content of Ellicott Creek


    Your close - 34 gpm x 60= 2040 gph(per hour)


    2040 gph x 24hours= 49,315gpd (per day)




    49,315 gpd x 7 days a week = 345,205 gpw (gallons per week)



    345205 gpw x 52 weeks = 17,950,660 gallons per year.


    If you took away the extra 49,315 gallons of water a day being pumped in - flooding wouldn't be so bad and maybe flood insurance wouldn't be mandatory and costing affected home owners thousands of dollars every year.


    That water comes from the stone quarry on Wherle near Harris Hill Rd. - some of it is used to catch "rock dust during processing" and washing crushed stone . Then its pumped into Ellicott Creek . No health or environmental study has been done or presented to the public - by either the Quarry or Lancaster's Town Board who approves of this operation . God knows if any agency like the Department of Environmental Conservation, Corp of Engineers even knows or has approved of this either .


    Ask your local Officials - you take a look - judge for yourself - flood insurance has gone up , in some area's by 40% just in the last couple years .
    Lancaster Town Government has been asked many times to correct this issue. It was even suggested that the pumps from the quarry be shut off during these high water periods.


    When residents told local Officials that it "adds to the flooding problem" it increases the duration and overall impact of flooding.


    Now theres two quarries putting their run off and one pumping 24/7/365
    __________________
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  • #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    8,312
    Stony Road? At the bridge which crosses Ellicott Creek? Where the DEC, ACOE, the Town of Lancaster and the Erie County Sewer District #4 allowed a sanitary sewer to be placed in the south branch of the creek?

    That location where the developer was fined twice for a total of $25,000 because residents contacted the feds and state on stormwater violations?

  • #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,666
    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    Well, even though Supervisor Bob Giza says,"Theres no flooding in Lancaster." The Lancaster Police are restricting traffic on Stony Rd because water is once again flowing over the roadway - in not one but two large ares.

    Also the pumps at the stone quarry are still pumping full force into Ellicott Creek with the blessings of our Town Board.






    ELLICOTT CREEK Flooding: Town Of Lancaster adds to flood risks for downstream neighbors, Town Government fully aware and takes no corrective actions:







    According to their study these areas are affected: the AMHERST, NORTH FOREST TO HOPKINS, MAPLE TO FRENCH INCLUDING GETZVILLE. IN WILLIAMSVILLE, LEHN SPRINGS DRIVE. IN TONAWANDA, ELLICOTT CREEK RD TO I-290, COLVIN TO NIAGARA FALLS BLVD. IN CHEEKTOWAGA AND LANCASTER...AERO DRIVE AREA...BOWMANSVILLE FIRE STATION AREA. UB BIKE PATH FLOODED.
    __________________________________________________ ___________

    Ask your self this question; Why do they only monitor the Ellicott Creek from WILLIAMSVILLE to Tonawanda Creek. Theres no mention of Lancaster's 18+ Millions being pumped into the Creek Yearly - WHY?
    ___


    From just one location in Lancaster :18 Million gallons of water a year + the natural content of Ellicott Creek


    Your close - 34 gpm x 60= 2040 gph(per hour)


    2040 gph x 24hours= 49,315gpd (per day)




    49,315 gpd x 7 days a week = 345,205 gpw (gallons per week)



    345205 gpw x 52 weeks = 17,950,660 gallons per year.


    If you took away the extra 49,315 gallons of water a day being pumped in - flooding wouldn't be so bad and maybe flood insurance wouldn't be mandatory and costing affected home owners thousands of dollars every year.


    That water comes from the stone quarry on Wherle near Harris Hill Rd. - some of it is used to catch "rock dust during processing" and washing crushed stone . Then its pumped into Ellicott Creek . No health or environmental study has been done or presented to the public - by either the Quarry or Lancaster's Town Board who approves of this operation . God knows if any agency like the Department of Environmental Conservation, Corp of Engineers even knows or has approved of this either .


    Ask your local Officials - you take a look - judge for yourself - flood insurance has gone up , in some area's by 40% just in the last couple years .
    Lancaster Town Government has been asked many times to correct this issue. It was even suggested that the pumps from the quarry be shut off during these high water periods.


    When residents told local Officials that it "adds to the flooding problem" it increases the duration and overall impact of flooding.


    Now theres two quarries putting their run off and one pumping 24/7/365
    __________________


    How does the 34 gpm coming from the quarry compare to the natural flow of Ellicott Creek?

    Is this a tiny fraction of the natural flow?
  • Reply With Quote Reply With Quote

  • #4
    Member Sylvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    beyond the sun
    Posts
    4,755
    My guess would be that the quarry wont shut down their pumps because when the water level rises it would put the motors and electrical distribution equipment under water.

    Quarries make good money. Why doesnt the town demand the quarry install a new pumping station so higher water levels wont flood the equipment?


    At the quarry I work at, my customers' pumps are 40' above average water level. Their entire pit could fill up with water and the equipment would stay dry.

  • #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    6,666
    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvan View Post
    My guess would be that the quarry wont shut down their pumps because when the water level rises it would put the motors and electrical distribution equipment under water.

    Quarries make good money. Why doesnt the town demand the quarry install a new pumping station so higher water levels wont flood the equipment?


    At the quarry I work at, my customers' pumps are 40' above average water level. Their entire pit could fill up with water and the equipment would stay dry.
    Really? This sounds like Giza & Co. needs to pay attention!! Get ideas from the professionals. You know they are on all kinds of boards, but their experience is short of nothing.

  • #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    34
    According to information on the internet, the average annual flowrate for Ellicott Creek is 77.2 cfs (3.5x10^4 gpm). At 34 gpm the quarry is contributing 0.1%.

  • #7
    Member Sylvan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    beyond the sun
    Posts
    4,755
    Quote Originally Posted by Strider View Post
    According to information on the internet, the average annual flowrate for Ellicott Creek is 77.2 cfs (3.5x10^4 gpm). At 34 gpm the quarry is contributing 0.1%.
    So it really doesnt matter if the quarry stops their pumps.

    Heres an idea. Since there is an existing "pit" within the town of lancaster why not consider a deal with the quarry to install a gate to allow the creek water to temporarilly fill their pit during critical weather events helping to reduce what flows through the flood areas, and another gate to drain the pit at a controlled rate when the weather event has passed.

    Oops...wait a minute...thats too logical for politicians to understand and big business to coordinate and manage.

  • #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,612
    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post

    345205 gpw x 52 weeks = 17,950,660 gallons per year.
    18 million gallons per year is nothing. My yard alone gets 750,000 gallons of water per year in rain. The 18 million gallons of water in a creek may add a couple millimeters to the depth.

    You're really reaching on this one....

  • #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,868

    Please read

    Quote Originally Posted by Strider View Post
    According to information on the INTERNET, the average annual flowrate for Ellicott Creek is 77.2 cfs (3.5x10^4 gpm). At 34 gpm the quarry is contributing 0.1%.
    Numbers can always be twisted and bent. $12Million is nothing when a budget is $2Billion. Just another drop in the bucket.

    Add an extra 2040 gph x 24 hours= 49,315 gpd (per day) , then a quick snow thaw, then heavy rainfall = flooding.

    I guess because it isn't your yard or your roads that are impassable ever year - why should you or the Government care that the Creek was also rerouted to accommodate land use.

    Go to Pavement Rd. and look at the Creek - you cant hardly believe its the same one. Drive down to Gennessee and Harris Hill or go by the Bowmansville Fire Hall - now its twice as wide - moving much faster and constant.

    In a flood stage - if that water was flowing through your property - I guess just another inch higher - for longer than nature intended - wouldn't bother you a bit. I bet neither of you who responded actually suffer the yearly flood hassles.

    What was suggested was the pumps be turned off during heavy rains and flood stages.

    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  • #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,868

    Where did you get your numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by yaksplat View Post
    18 million gallons per year is nothing. My yard alone gets 750,000 gallons of water per year in rain. The 18 million gallons of water in a creek may add a couple millimeters to the depth.

    You're really reaching on this one....

    Please explain how "My yard alone gets 750,000 gallons of water per year in rain."?

    Please explain? I believe your reaching on this one. Trying to downplay manmade flooding happening to others>
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  • #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,612
    do the math.

    I'll even help you out a bit.

    Given:
    Lancaster average rainfall = 40in roughly
    1 gallon = 231 in^3
    1 acre = 43560 ft^2
    1 ft^2 = 144 in^2

    Question:
    How big is my yard in acres?

    Hint: It's not that big, i live in one of those subdivisions.

    I'll post the answer tomorrow in case you can't figure it out.

  • #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,868

    No problem - try using similar situations

    Cool, but now add another 700 gallons a day everyday. How wet would your yard be. Whats the average absorption rate of your soils - do you have exterior drain tiles - gradient slope of property?

    Now lets try to compare same type conditions as well!

    And if it will help you any, you can even factor in evaperation rate using our areas mean (average) temperatures.

    Even if your numbers are correct in theory - your examples are purposefully misleading, in an effort to down play a situation completely foreign to your position/example.

    Nice try though!
    Quote Originally Posted by yaksplat View Post
    do the math.

    I'll even help you out a bit.

    Given:
    Lancaster average rainfall = 40in roughly
    1 gallon = 231 in^3
    1 acre = 43560 ft^2
    1 ft^2 = 144 in^2

    Question:
    How big is my yard in acres?

    Hint: It's not that big, i live in one of those subdivisions.

    I'll post the answer tomorrow in case you can't figure it out.
    Last edited by 4248; January 26th, 2010 at 10:02 PM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  • #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    1,612
    Quote Originally Posted by 4248 View Post
    Cool, but now add another 700 gallons a day everyday. How wet would your yard be. Whats the average absorption rate of your soils - do you have exterior drain tiles - gradient slope of property?

    Now lets try to compare same type conditions as well!

    And if it will help you any, you can even factor in evaperation rate using our areas mean (average) temperatures.

    Even if your numbers are correct in theory - your examples are purposefully misleading, in an effort to down play a situation completely foreign to your position/example.

    Nice try though!
    Thank you for showing exactly what is wrong. The mathematics to prove your theories wrong are right in front of you, yet, since you don't understand them, you ignore them. There no sense in arguing with someone like you since you obviously don't know how to handle facts.

    Do the math, tell me how much the creek goes up on a daily basis due to this pumping. Now compare that to when an inch of rain falls. Do you understand the word negligible? Pissing in someone's pool isn't going to flood their yard and basement. If you're as good with sarcasm as you are with math, then that last sentence dosn't mean much to you.

  • #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    10,868

    Your point - your burden of proof

    Quote Originally Posted by yaksplat View Post
    Thank you for showing exactly what is wrong. The mathematics to prove your theories wrong are right in front of you, yet, since you don't understand them, you ignore them. There no sense in arguing with someone like you since you obviously don't know how to handle facts.

    Do the math, tell me how much the creek goes up on a daily basis due to this pumping. Now compare that to when an inch of rain falls. Do you understand the word negligible? Pissing in someone's pool isn't going to flood their yard and basement. If you're as good with sarcasm as you are with math, then that last sentence doesn't mean much to you.
    See once again, subvert the true issue with dazzle about average rain fall and average flow based on cubic feet or water - blah Blah Blah.

    He compared whats "normally" in the Creek on an "average" consider average and normal rain fall periods.

    This in order to not deal with the true issues as stated:

    During a quick thaw period - during and after a heavy rainfall event - the Creek is already being over loaded by nature.

    I stated,"Then add in extra 2040 gph x 24 hours= 49,315 gpd (per day) , then a quick snow thaw, then heavy rainfall = flooding.

    Yaksplat He claims "My yard alone gets 750,000 gallons of water per year in rain" in average rain fall.

    Ellicott Creek receives that much extra every month or less just from the stone quarry alone.
    __________________________________________________ ______________
    Yaksplat He claims "My yard alone gets 750,000 gallons of water per year in rain" in average rain fall.

    • I posted, "Cool, but now add another 700 gallons a day everyday.
    • How wet would your yard be?
    • Whats the average absorption rate of your soils -
    • do you have exterior drain tiles -
    • gradient slope of property?
    • Now lets try to compare same type conditions as well!
      And if it will help you any,
    • you can even factor in evaporation rate using our areas mean (average) temperatures.

      Even if your numbers are correct in theory - your examples are purposefully misleading, in an effort to down play a situation completely foreign to your position/example.
    • So now you get mad because you attempted to discredit my info and it failed.
    You did manage to distract from the issue - but the facts remain! Better luck next time and Please try to actually care about what we are doing to our environment and our neighbors.

    PS pissing in some ones pool is not a good thing where I come from!
    Last edited by 4248; January 27th, 2010 at 06:56 PM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  • Thread Information

    Users Browsing this Thread

    There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

    Similar Threads

    1. Cross Creek Sewer Project Cited, Again
      By gshowell in forum Village of Lancaster and Town of Lancaster Politics
      Replies: 14
      Last Post: August 16th, 2014, 11:17 AM
    2. Amherst,Getzville,Williamsville,Tonawanda Creek floods may occur
      By 4248 in forum Amherst, Clarence and Williamsville
      Replies: 0
      Last Post: January 25th, 2010, 11:42 PM
    3. Haynes to be appointed to Ellicott Dist seat
      By kernwatch in forum Buffalo NY Politics
      Replies: 29
      Last Post: January 21st, 2010, 02:14 PM
    4. Ellicott Creek corridor flooding ?
      By 4248 in forum Amherst, Clarence and Williamsville
      Replies: 9
      Last Post: February 8th, 2008, 06:49 PM
    5. ruble being dumped along Ellicott Creek
      By 4248 in forum Village of Lancaster and Town of Lancaster Politics
      Replies: 7
      Last Post: January 10th, 2008, 02:41 PM

    Tags for this Thread

    Posting Permissions

    • You may not post new threads
    • You may not post replies
    • You may not post attachments
    • You may not edit your posts
    •