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Thread: Had enough yet

  1. #481
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    It was but a few yeaars ago that individuals who questioned Obama’s place of birth, scholastic education credentials and tuition source of imbursement, association with Sol Alinsky and like types, etc. were attacked by the PC police while having their constitutional freedom of speech guarantee challenged; and labeled racist at the same time.

    Today, Kathy Griffith holds up a mock head of Trump, university professors are openly wishing death to Trump and McCain, Chelsea Handler just called for a military coup against Trump and everything is now considered acceptable because the left labels it an expression of free speech.

    In a time of potential nuclear holocaust, fostered by the previous administrations before Trump, and now calling Trump the provocateur, you okay with all this?

  2. #482
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    OK, first of all, the people who may be calling for McCain's death -which I've never heard - are NOT the people wishing the same to Trump. And the reason that it's become more acceptable to be more radical is because of the radical statements by Trump, himself.

    But MORE profoundly, how the HELL is this deal with N Korea on Obama??

    I was stationed in Korea in the mid 1980's, when Kim Il Sung was in power, "The Eternal Leader". I've been to the DMZ, many times. I know first hand what the leaders in NK have been doing to their people since the end of the Korean War in 1953. I was there, locked and loaded, when N Korean troops came across the DMZ after a Russian defected to the south and all hell almost broke loose. I've stood in the truce buildings, staring at N Korean soldiers who were staring back. The N Korean people are led to believe that the US is t he aggressor and are told that we have attacked sovereign nations, but that N Korea has successfully held us off from attacking their "Motherland"

    You know, Kim Il Sung was a genius. He was evil, but he was smart, secretive and cautious. This little fat grand kid of his is reckless, brutal, narcissistic and probably scared. In everything I complain about Trump, this is one case where I agree with him. Jung Il is like the fly that keeps landing on your face when you're reading the paper and you can't swoosh it away. He cannot be allowed to make idle threats against the US and US allies and territories. If it were me, I'd be quick to remind him that his country can be erased in a matter of days. Most of N Korea's defensive positions are dug in and known by US Intelligence. The REAL problem here is China. China is N Korea's only friend and like the little wimp that uses the school bully for protection, N Korea is sticking it's tongue out at the world and daring someone to throw a punch and China is letting it happen. The recent comment that if NK attacks, China will sit by but if the US attacks, China will intervene is proof and will China ascent into military and industrial strength, they've become more ready to antagonize the rest of the region.

    N Korea should have been dealt with decades ago.
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  3. #483
    Member mark blazejewski's Avatar
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    But MORE profoundly, how the HELL is this deal with N Korea on Obama??
    HipKat, I think Mr. Lee blamed previous administrationS, not just Obama. It is on Obama in that he turned a blind eye to increased missile testing, and stood by as Kim Jong il and fat boy became more aggressive.

    BUSH 43 is at fault because under his watch, the North Koreans conducted their first nuclear test.

    The biggest offender, BILL CLINTON's 1994 deal. So a special thanks to him and Jimmy Carter for that.

    Our policy with North Korea has been botched since 1951. Although there were never any good options, it was a problem that needed to be addressed. This goes back to Truman and Acheson and ends with Obama and Kerry.

    If the situation does blow-up, there is one man who will emerge as the prophetic genius: General MacArthur. He is entitled to the big "I told ya so."
    Last edited by mark blazejewski; August 12th, 2017 at 07:17 AM.

  4. #484
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    I was stationed in Korea in the mid 1980's, when Kim Il Sung was in power, "The Eternal Leader". I've been to the DMZ, many times. I know first hand what the leaders in NK have been doing to their people since the end of the Korean War in 1953. I was there, locked and loaded, when N Korean troops came across the DMZ after a Russian defected to the south and all hell almost broke loose. I've stood in the truce buildings, staring at N Korean soldiers who were staring back. The N Korean people are led to believe that the US is t he aggressor and are told that we have attacked sovereign nations, but that N Korea has successfully held us off from attacking their "Motherland"

    You know, Kim Il Sung was a genius. He was evil, but he was smart, secretive and cautious. This little fat grand kid of his is reckless, brutal, narcissistic and probably scared. In everything I complain about Trump, this is one case where I agree with him. Jung Il is like the fly that keeps landing on your face when you're reading the paper and you can't swoosh it away. He cannot be allowed to make idle threats against the US and US allies and territories. If it were me, I'd be quick to remind him that his country can be erased in a matter of days. Most of N Korea's defensive positions are dug in and known by US Intelligence. The REAL problem here is China. China is N Korea's only friend and like the little wimp that uses the school bully for protection, N Korea is sticking it's tongue out at the world and daring someone to throw a punch and China is letting it happen. The recent comment that if NK attacks, China will sit by but if the US attacks, China will intervene is proof and will China ascent into military and industrial strength, they've become more ready to antagonize the rest of the region.

    N Korea should have been dealt with decades ago.


    A friend of mine was with the military police during the winter of 1967-1968 and stationed in Korea. Simultaneous with the seizure of the Pueblo, there was a terrorist attack aimed at assassinating President Park Cung hee. The terrorist scattered across South Korea. My friend and a group of MPs were dispatched to the DMZ to interdict the terrorists, where he claims his group was engaged the little bastards in a rather fierce fire fight. I assume his anecdote is true.

    Nevertheless, his remarks mirror your observations HipKat.

    I am nearly 100% in agreement with your China remarks, and for that matter, just about everything else you related.
    Last edited by mark blazejewski; August 12th, 2017 at 07:21 AM.

  5. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark blazejewski View Post
    HipKat, I think Mr. Lee blamed previous administrationS, not just Obama. It is on Obama in that he turned a blind eye to increased missile testing, and stood by as Kim Jong il and fat boy became more aggressive.

    BUSH 43 is at fault because under his watch, the North Koreans conducted their first nuclear test.

    The biggest offender, BILL CLINTON's 1994 deal. So a special thanks to him and Jimmy Carter for that.

    Our policy with North Korea has been botched since 1951. Although there were never any good options, it was a problem that needed to be addressed. This goes back to Truman and Acheson and ends with Obama and Kerry.

    If the situation does blow-up, there is one man who will emerge as the prophetic genius: General MacArthur. He is entitled to the big "I told ya so."
    Just to slightly walk back my remarks, history suggests that the NOKOs had a rather healthy respect for President Eisenhower. His threat to use atomic weapons to end the Korean War, jump-started the endless peace talks, and quickly brought about the 1953 armistice.

    The North Koreans did little of note during the 1953-1961 period, perhaps because their PRC benefactors were busy dealing, on and off, with the Eisenhower administration's policy regarding Formosa (Taiwan), and the seemingly ridiculous, but actually strategically/diplomatically pivotal, issue(s) of Quemoy and Matsu.

    So, it would seem that the Eisenhower administration was the exception to this rather pathetic history of Presidential inaction, indifference, and appeasement.

  6. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    OK, first of all, the people who may be calling for McCain's death -which I've never heard - are NOT the people wishing the same to Trump. And the reason that it's become more acceptable to be more radical is because of the radical statements by Trump, himself.

    But MORE profoundly, how the HELL is this deal with N Korea on Obama??

    I was stationed in Korea in the mid 1980's, when Kim Il Sung was in power, "The Eternal Leader". I've been to the DMZ, many times. I know first hand what the leaders in NK have been doing to their people since the end of the Korean War in 1953. I was there, locked and loaded, when N Korean troops came across the DMZ after a Russian defected to the south and all hell almost broke loose. I've stood in the truce buildings, staring at N Korean soldiers who were staring back. The N Korean people are led to believe that the US is t he aggressor and are told that we have attacked sovereign nations, but that N Korea has successfully held us off from attacking their "Motherland"

    You know, Kim Il Sung was a genius. He was evil, but he was smart, secretive and cautious. This little fat grand kid of his is reckless, brutal, narcissistic and probably scared. In everything I complain about Trump, this is one case where I agree with him. Jung Il is like the fly that keeps landing on your face when you're reading the paper and you can't swoosh it away. He cannot be allowed to make idle threats against the US and US allies and territories. If it were me, I'd be quick to remind him that his country can be erased in a matter of days. Most of N Korea's defensive positions are dug in and known by US Intelligence. The REAL problem here is China. China is N Korea's only friend and like the little wimp that uses the school bully for protection, N Korea is sticking it's tongue out at the world and daring someone to throw a punch and China is letting it happen. The recent comment that if NK attacks, China will sit by but if the US attacks, China will intervene is proof and will China ascent into military and industrial strength, they've become more ready to antagonize the rest of the region.

    N Korea should have been dealt with decades ago.
    Agree: N Korea should have been dealt with decades ago.

    So, you seriously hold Obama harmless in the decades of the pathetic history of Presidential inaction, indifference, and appeasement in dealing with North Korea? Disagree to the max. His foreign policy was kissing ass, apologizing for America's exceptionalism and moving America to the World Order concept.

    I totally agree with you on your assessment of the involvement of China. I found today’s USA report very interesting and relevant in today’s nuclear crisis; titled “Here's what Kim Jong Un wants from the U.S.”

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...cid=spartandhp

    And take note that while the Times is writing that Trump is the provocateur in the crisis and is “beating the war drums”, Trump's approval rating in a Rasmussen poll now stands at 45 percent, a six-point jump from a 39 percent approval rating in the same poll last week. The new rating marks Trump's highest approval the poll has recorded since July 12.

    We peons can speculate on what the outcome will be but may never know the of the backroom agreements being negotiated.

  7. #487
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    We peons can speculate on what the outcome will be but may never know the of the backroom agreements being negotiated.
    Absolutely.

    It was over a decade before we realized that there was a secret quid pro quo involving Cuba in 1962. Our Jupiter Missiles were removed from Turkey in exchange for the Soviet Missiles in Cuba.

    The U.S. missiles in Turkey were never a Russian-articulated issue per se during the crisis. Kennedy made those missiles an issue when he leaked to Walter Lippman, and Lippman published, the possibility that Kennedy would consider removing those missiles as part of a deal with the USSR. Oh course, the U.S. publicly shot down the idea, but it laid the basis for the subsequent back-channel wheeling and dealing. Kennedy, perhaps unnecessarily, put Southern European security on the poker table.

    (It is interesting to note that, not attendant to the Cuban deal, was any secret reciprocal non-intervention pledges by the USSR secret, positive assurances regarding the security of West Berlin, or a Soviet/Cuban hands-off policy regarding further expansion into Latin America.)

    Furthermore, the Soviet missiles in Cuba were a gun to the head of the United States; the Jupiter missiles in Turkey were a rather frivolous excuse to improve the Soviet position in the Middle East and the Mediterranean. Not exactly equitable urgent interests.

    I am not criticizing President Kennedy's substantial handling of the 1962 crisis, but his use of the back-channel, (and as I have said in previous posts, all Presidents have back-channels, aka secretly "COLLUDE") was something less than shrewdly cleaver. The Soviets received a great deal out of the agreement. Nevertheless, he did have to act with dispatch to stop what appeared to be an imminent nuclear war. For that, all of us who remember that time, are grateful and supportive.


    However, the U.S. always seems to come up short in private diplomacy, and it was not just Kennedy and the Democrats.

    Nixon's opening to China in 1971/1972, for all of its back-channel intrigue, and secret protocol deals, along with his simultaneous "Detente" policy with Russia, yielded no positive results for the free World visa v Communist expansion in Southeast Asia and Africa. South Vietnam and Cambodia in 1975; Angola and Ethiopia in the mid and late 1970s, are prime examples.

    George Bush 41 sucked in his attempts to resolve the Chinese internal crisis that led up to the Tienneman Square massacre in 1989, and his rather lack-luster response to the massacre.

    Diplomacy to defuse a dangerous crisis always seems preferable. But in many instances, it just kicks the can down the road to a more dangerous war.

    If things are what they appear, Trump is nuts on. But, "IF" is a big word.
    Last edited by mark blazejewski; August 12th, 2017 at 12:14 PM.

  8. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee Chowaniec View Post
    Agree: N Korea should have been dealt with decades ago.

    So, you seriously hold Obama harmless in the decades of the pathetic history of Presidential inaction, indifference, and appeasement in dealing with North Korea? Disagree to the max. His foreign policy was kissing ass, apologizing for America's exceptionalism and moving America to the World Order concept.

    I totally agree with you on your assessment of the involvement of China. I found today’s USA report very interesting and relevant in today’s nuclear crisis; titled “Here's what Kim Jong Un wants from the U.S.”

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...cid=spartandhp

    And take note that while the Times is writing that Trump is the provocateur in the crisis and is “beating the war drums”, Trump's approval rating in a Rasmussen poll now stands at 45 percent, a six-point jump from a 39 percent approval rating in the same poll last week. The new rating marks Trump's highest approval the poll has recorded since July 12.

    We peons can speculate on what the outcome will be but may never know the of the backroom agreements being negotiated.
    To be fair, I overlooked your use of the pluralized word "administrations" and as far as Trump, this is one place we agree, because if it were me, I would matter of factly let Jung Il and the world know that the US is sick and tired of being tested and 1 wrong move on the part of NK or anyone else for that matter would truly wake the sleeping bear that GW Bush referred to. Enough is enough. China, Russia, N Korea, et al are starting to forget who the real military super power is in this world due to passive and horrible responses to conflicts over the last 20 years. I would like nothing better than to be the guy that looked Jung Il in the face through a camera lens and reminded him and the world that we would cripple his reign and his "empire" in a matter of days and that's just with conventional weapons.

    I'm quite sure South Korea would love to recover the land held by the north and would do just fine creating new trade routes and revenue streams with China
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by HipKat View Post
    To be fair, I overlooked your use of the pluralized word "administrations" and as far as Trump, this is one place we agree, because if it were me, I would matter of factly let Jung Il and the world know that the US is sick and tired of being tested and 1 wrong move on the part of NK or anyone else for that matter would truly wake the sleeping bear that GW Bush referred to. Enough is enough. China, Russia, N Korea, et al are starting to forget who the real military super power is in this world due to passive and horrible responses to conflicts over the last 20 years. I would like nothing better than to be the guy that looked Jung Il in the face through a camera lens and reminded him and the world that we would cripple his reign and his "empire" in a matter of days and that's just with conventional weapons.

    I'm quite sure South Korea would love to recover the land held by the north and would do just fine creating new trade routes and revenue streams with China
    I am very happy HipKat that on this issue, at least between us, there is no daylight. And, I would be remiss if I did not thank you for your military service and incredible insights.

  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark blazejewski View Post
    I am very happy HipKat that on this issue, at least between us, there is no daylight. And, I would be remiss if I did not thank you for your military service and incredible insights.
    Awww shucks...lol
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  11. #491
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    Hipkat's assessment of the situation is dead on in my opinion. The question is what do we do? I am confused as to why China is not doing more, as they do not want a nuclear peninsula, much less deal with refugees so Korea serves some sort of function for them in my opinion as a skirmisher to the US.

    I don't think sanctions will do jack... he made more money in the last few years than previously and as I said he serves a purpose to China. It is only a matter of time before he can make the the warhead placeable on an ICBM and have it go through the re entry process successfully . Hopefully somebody in power has a plan because there are no good options.

  12. #492
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    The problem is that any type of military action will result in a lot of civilian deaths. N Korea will definitely attack S Korea and make the scud missile attacks on Israel in the 90's look like child's play. I think China is waiting in the wings to see how much power they can seize. It's obvious China is interested in becoming the primary super power.
    Let me articulate this for you:
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  13. #493
    Member mark blazejewski's Avatar
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    President Trump has been criticized for not specifically calling out those who perpetrated the violence in Charlottesville. To the contrary, I feel that the President's remarks were appropriate and unifying.

    What end would be served by addressing domestic violence with a comment calling-out, and in a sense elevating, a specific criminal faction?

    It seems to me that to call-out the extreme right to the exclusion of the extreme left, or in the reverse, to call-out the extreme left to the exclusion of the extreme right, would only serve to foster further domestic divisions.

    Rather, President Trump spoke as a leader attempting to unify a divided nation. While condemning the basic human sin of violence, he
    ignored those specific evil demons that nurture division, and celebrated those angels that grow us whole and strong.

    In fact, Trump's words, while lacking in eloquence, were akin to those of Robert Kennedy upon the death of Dr. King. Senator Kennedy did not specially call-out any one group for reprisal. In fact, he urged unity, tolerance and mutual respect, while condemning hatred, violence, division, and "the savageness of man.":


    "We can move in that direction as a country, in greater polarization -- black people amongst blacks, and white amongst whites, filled with hatred toward one another. Or we can make an effort, as Martin Luther King did, to understand, and to comprehend, and replace that violence, that stain of bloodshed that has spread across our land, with an effort to understand, compassion, and love.

    What we need in the United States is not division; what we need in the United States is not hatred; what we need in the United States is not violence and lawlessness, but is love, and wisdom, and compassion toward one another, and a feeling of justice toward those who still suffer within our country, whether they be white or whether they be black..."

    "...And let's dedicate ourselves to what the Greeks wrote so many years ago: to tame the savageness of man and make gentle the life of this world..."
    Last edited by mark blazejewski; August 13th, 2017 at 10:15 AM.

  14. #494
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    I think China is waiting in the wings to see how much power they can seize.
    Nuts on!

    Personally, I think the Chinese are, more or less, (and IMHO more) behind this thing. Simply put, there will be no war, unless the Chinese want one.

  15. #495
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark blazejewski View Post
    .

    Nuts on!

    Personally, I think the Chinese are, more or less, (and IMHO more) behind this thing. Simply put, there will be no war, unless the Chinese want one.
    Exactly. I'm stunned more people don't have the insight to see that China is positioning itself to make a profound move. Just the "land grab" and military base/island building in the South China Sea should get people's attention

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...china-sea.html
    Let me articulate this for you:
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