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  1. #1
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    Eliminating school districts

    I've been working on this a while but can't seem it get it published.

    Anyway, I thought a comment period would be useful as I have to confess, as a city resident who did not attend public schools, the whole suburban school district running through town lines thing never made a lick of sense to me.

    What am I missing?

    I do know this. Education is one of the largest expenses of state/local government and if we don't get a handle on it, we will never be able to lower our taxes to be competitive with other states.

    **************

    Free New York News Alert No. 14


    Special Districts favor Special Interests

    A Proposal to Eliminate School Districts

    By James Ostrowski

    October ___, 2006

    DRAFT FOR COMMENT




    New York State has too many government agencies employing too many workers making too much money. Some have proposed centralizing government functions into county, regional or state agencies as the best means to reduce bureaucracy. However, historically and in theory, centralization does not make government smaller, just more distant and unresponsive. You end up being ruled by highly-paid strangers in distant capitals.

    The challenge is reduce the number of government agencies without centralizing power or removing local control. For the fourth time, Free New York has found a way.

    In New York State, there are 705 school districts. In Erie County, there are 29 separate school districts, each a government unto itself with elected officials and in most cases with budgets approved at special elections. In the three Erie County cities, voters choose board members but not approve budgets. All these districts are in effect separate governments run by elected schools boards.

    The school boards are chosen in special elections with very low turnouts. Most of the voters have a special interest in the outcome, for example, school district employees and the parents of students. The general interests of average citizens are not a significant factor in these elections.

    The results are predictable: bloated payrolls and some of the highest property taxes in the country.

    Giving voters the right to approve budgets has utterly failed to restrain spending. Again, such elections are dominated by special interests which favor higher spending. On occasions when budgets are defeated, similar budgets are often re-submitted until the opposition is worn down.

    Another deterrent to competitive elections is the artificial nature of the school districts. In 2005, we saw almost every incumbent Erie County Legislator re-elected whereas several incumbent town board members were defeated. It is easier for challengers to defeat incumbents when they are running in their own communities as opposed to special districts which cobble together different communities or neighborhoods.

    The electoral history of Erie County shows a clear pattern: incumbents are most vulnerable in small districts that correspond to organic communities, for example, Buffalo council districts, rather than larger districts which combine different neighborhoods, for example, the Erie County Legislature.

    The present regime allows special interests to use special districts and special elections to control the schools for their own purposes at the expense of the general public which is largely irrelevant to the process.

    We propose to eliminate all these school districts insofar as they constitute separate governments. We propose to eliminate all the elected school boards and special budget elections.

    Under our plan, each city or town will have its own school district. Why elect a board to run the schools when there is already a municipal legislature in each municipality? Responsibility for the schools would shift to the existing town boards, mayors and city councils. Each town board would appoint a superintendent to run the schools on a daily basis. In cities, the mayor would nominate a candidate for superintendent subject to the consent of the council. (This is presently the system in New York City.)

    In sparsely populated rural areas, perhaps towns could cluster together to form a district with each town’s supervisor serving on the school board.

    This alternative system has many advantages. First and foremost, the voters in general elections will elect the policymakers who run the schools. Special interests will be less likely to dominate elections when the turnout goes from 10 percent to 60 percent. All of the costs associated with special elections and with maintaining separate school boards are eliminated.

    Finally, when the schools become a department of the existing municipal government, consolidation of non-educational functions can occur. The existing parks department will replace the groundskeepers who maintain school sports fields. The public works departments can replace the school building engineers and so on with each and every expensively duplicated function.

    All in all, this proposal would eliminate 245 elected officials in Erie County alone and thousands statewide.

    In sum, costs will be reduced and the grip of special interests will be loosened, which can only lead to a greater focus on educating students which is after all supposed to be the point of it all.




    Appendix

    School Districts in Erie County

    District Board members

    1. Akron Central School District 7
    2. Alden Central School District 7
    3. Amherst Central School District 7
    4. Buffalo City School District 9
    5. Cheektowaga Central School District 7
    6. Cheektowaga-Maryvale Union Free School District 5
    7. Cheektowaga-Sloan Union Free School District 7
    8. Clarence Central School District 7
    9. Cleveland Hill Union Free School District 5
    10. Depew Union Free School District 7
    11. East Aurora Union Free School District 7
    12. Eden Central School District 7
    13. Evans-Brant Central School District (Lake Shore) 7
    14. Frontier Central School District 9
    15. Grand Island Central School District 7
    16. Hamburg Central School District 7
    17. Holland Central School District 7
    18. Hopevale Union Free School District At Hamburg 5
    19. Iroquois Central School District 7
    20. Kenmore-Tonawanda Union Free School District 5
    21. Lackawanna City School District 7
    22. Lancaster Central School District 7
    23. North Collins Central School District 7
    24. Orchard Park Central School District 7
    25. Springville-Griffith Institute Central School District 7
    26. Sweet Home Central School District 7
    27. Tonawanda City School District 8
    28. West Seneca Central School District 7
    29. Williamsville Central School District 10
    ______
    245

  2. #2
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    Jim, the main problem with the school districts are that they are governed more by the teachers union than by the school boards. I believe that having individual districts is fine as long as they are union free schools. I also believe that the schools are becoming more and more ,pork and patronage jobs for politicians family members. If you were to check, most of the school board members and general staff are committee members of a political party. When politics enter the schools, education ceases to exist!

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    I read somewhere that the Frontier Central School district turns out more world-beaters per capita than any other district.
    The evil hide even when no one is chasing them.- Proverbs

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    Quote Originally Posted by FJB
    Jim, the main problem with the school districts are that they are governed more by the teachers union than by the school boards. I believe that having individual districts is fine as long as they are union free schools. I also believe that the schools are becoming more and more ,pork and patronage jobs for politicians family members. If you were to check, most of the school board members and general staff are committee members of a political party. When politics enter the schools, education ceases to exist!
    You are right about the impact of politics on education. However, the issue here is the economic impact on taxpayers.

    Improving education is another worthwhile endeavor. The best approach to that would be to remove government from education altogether and completely privatizing the schools. That, being an extreme measure, is highly unlikely to occur in the near future. A good first step would be vouchers and tax credits that enable parents to have a real choice about which school their children attend. Introducing choice with private schools will create competition that will enhance the education level without the need to directly attack the entrenched unions. If they don't mend their ways they will simply go out of business due to a lack of students.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

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    This is just our opening salvo on education policy.

    We have to restore meaningful elections. School electioons are a joke with low turnout favoring special interests.

    Our proposal moves that choice to November when most people vote.

    If certain towns don't have enough students, let them align with adjoining towns to form a district with each supervisor on the school board. That way also the voters in November make the decisions.

  6. #6
    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    This is just our opening salvo on education policy.

    We have to restore meaningful elections. School electioons are a joke with low turnout favoring special interests.

    Our proposal moves that choice to November when most people vote.
    Jim,

    A couple ideas I'd like to see:

    1) Move the election day proposal to the day after school taxes are due.

    2) Due to chronically overlooked conflict of interest, no NYSUT or NEA members on any school board. Given the choice, I'd prefer to see only private-sector employees, but around here they're in short supply.

    3) Mandate a cap on school taxes, not to exceed COLA.

    4) Eliminate no-bids for contracts.
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

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    Quote Originally Posted by colossus27
    Jim,

    A couple ideas I'd like to see:

    1) Move the election day proposal to the day after school taxes are due.
    FWI ... school budgets and BOE positions are voted on in May.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus27
    2) Due to chronically overlooked conflict of interest, no NYSUT or NEA members on any school board. Given the choice, I'd prefer to see only private-sector employees, but around here they're in short supply.
    First, you cannot bar anyone from an elected position because of their membership in a group. Second, contrary to your belief, very few faculty members serve on BOEs.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus27
    3) Mandate a cap on school taxes, not to exceed COLA.
    NYS requires schools to follow curricula, provide services, and fulfill contracts, so the schools' hands are tied. You might want to actually talk to members of your local BOE and ask them about "unfunded mandates". You'll get an earful.

    Quote Originally Posted by colossus27
    4) Eliminate no-bids for contracts.
    What "no-bid contracts" are schools engaging in? Again, state law requires that they bid out purchases and services over a certain amount. Sometimes schools will use vendors that are under "state contract" which means that the vendor has contracted with NYS to offer special prices to governments and public entities within the state.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    If certain towns don't have enough students, let them align with adjoining towns to form a district with each supervisor on the school board. That way also the voters in November make the decisions.
    Consider Lancaster, next to the Depew "union free" (whatever the hell that means, it doesn't mean there are no unions!) district.

    Depew is very close to imploding, the dwindling population is likely due to the insanely high Depew school taxes and shallow property values...anybody in Lancaster w/a 3-digit IQ will oppose this.
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    You are right about the impact of politics on education. However, the issue here is the economic impact on taxpayers.

    Improving education is another worthwhile endeavor. The best approach to that would be to remove government from education altogether and completely privatizing the schools. That, being an extreme measure, is highly unlikely to occur in the near future. A good first step would be vouchers and tax credits that enable parents to have a real choice about which school their children attend. Introducing choice with private schools will create competition that will enhance the education level without the need to directly attack the entrenched unions. If they don't mend their ways they will simply go out of business due to a lack of students.
    Isn't it a bit hypocritical for an ECC student/graduate to advocate for the elimination of public education? Why did you choose a public college over a private one? It wouldn't be because of the five figure cost differential just in tuition, could it?

    That leads to another question: what about children whose parents can't afford private education?

    Moreover, not only do you assume that there aren't unions in private education, you also assume that teachers work for less in private schools. You might want to revise your assumptions.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Isn't it a bit hypocritical for an ECC student/graduate to advocate for the elimination of public education? Why did you choose a public college over a private one? It wouldn't be because of the five figure cost differential just in tuition, could it?

    That leads to another question: what about children whose parents can't afford private education?

    Moreover, not only do you assume that there aren't unions in private education, you also assume that teachers work for less in private schools. You might want to revise your assumptions.
    1. I chose ECC for a variety of reasons. First, they offered the program I wanted. Second, the location was convenient both to work and home. Third, I have already contributed to the support of ECC through taxes for many years.

    2. If a voucher program is implemented all parents would be able to allocate a fixed amount of money to educate their children. Private schools would easily be within the means of any income level.

    3. My assumptions about unions and schools isn't just a salary issue. It is quite evident that public schools have their hands tied by union rules and are not able to always make the best choices to further the cause of education. Also, private schools are currently the beneficiary of government programs which inflate the cost of education. Government student loans have put a definite upward pressure on the cost of education, public or private. Schools do not operate as efficiently as possible to attract students with the government ready to step in and finance education.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    1. I chose ECC for a variety of reasons. First, they offered the program I wanted. Second, the location was convenient both to work and home. Third, I have already contributed to the support of ECC through taxes for many years.

    2. If a voucher program is implemented all parents would be able to allocate a fixed amount of money to educate their children. Private schools would easily be within the means of any income level.

    3. My assumptions about unions and schools isn't just a salary issue. It is quite evident that public schools have their hands tied by union rules and are not able to always make the best choices to further the cause of education. Also, private schools are currently the beneficiary of government programs which inflate the cost of education. Government student loans have put a definite upward pressure on the cost of education, public or private. Schools do not operate as efficiently as possible to attract students with the government ready to step in and finance education.
    And what about the children of parents who can't find a school to educate their children for "a fixed amount of money"?

    What about special needs children?
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Quote Originally Posted by FJB
    Jim, the main problem with the school districts are that they are governed more by the teachers union than by the school boards. I believe that having individual districts is fine as long as they are union free schools. I also believe that the schools are becoming more and more ,pork and patronage jobs for politicians family members. If you were to check, most of the school board members and general staff are committee members of a political party. When politics enter the schools, education ceases to exist!
    Really can't argue with that FJB.
    Even if there are school board members that are not political hacks and want to make positive changes, they are screwed over by the unions and the state education bureaucracy.
    The public school districts are just a bunch of taxpayer plundering machines for special interests.
    "It is characteristic of current political thinking to welcome every suggestion which aims at enlarging the influence of government." - Ludwig von Mises

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    Quote Originally Posted by FJB
    Jim, the main problem with the school districts are that they are governed more by the teachers union than by the school boards. I believe that having individual districts is fine as long as they are union free schools. I also believe that the schools are becoming more and more ,pork and patronage jobs for politicians family members. If you were to check, most of the school board members and general staff are committee members of a political party. When politics enter the schools, education ceases to exist!

    The Niagara Wheatfield is a Taliban Run district.The teachers Union is the Enemy and needs to be fought at every turn.We have a superintendent who cant do math.Paid three times the asking price for a piece of property to build on. Every year these bastards raise school taxes and tell you its for the kids.It aint for the kids its for the Teachers Union.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    In New York State, there are 705 school districts. In Erie County, there are 29 separate school districts, each a government unto itself with elected officials and in most cases with budgets approved at special elections. In the three Erie County cities, voters choose board members but not approve budgets. All these districts are in effect separate governments run by elected schools boards.
    Fact: Buffalo is the only city in Erie County where the voters choose school board members but do not approve budgets. Lackawana and Tonawanda residents get to vote on their cities' budgets. The NYS Constitution was amended a while ago to give "small city" school boards budgetary control. The only upstate cities where the BOEs are NOT independent of the local government are: Albany, Buffalo, Rochester, and Syracuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    The school boards are chosen in special elections with very low turnouts. Most of the voters have a special interest in the outcome, for example, school district employees and the parents of students. The general interests of average citizens are not a significant factor in these elections.

    The results are predictable: bloated payrolls and some of the highest property taxes in the country.

    Giving voters the right to approve budgets has utterly failed to restrain spending. Again, such elections are dominated by special interests which favor higher spending. On occasions when budgets are defeated, similar budgets are often re-submitted until the opposition is worn down.
    I wasn't aware that parents of students constituted a "special interest group", but nontheless, since "special interest groups" already dominate political elections, how is incorporating the schools into the general political process going to "solve" this? If "average citizens" don't get off their butts to vote, then they have no one to blame except themselves if they don't like what the schools do.

    Fact: NYS mandates that public schools follow specified curricula, provide certain services to all district students, and abide by its labor contracts. That means that schools are limited in what they can cut. Usually, the cuts can only be made in some limited transportation costs, in interscholastic sports and extra-curricular activities, and in some non-mandated educational programs (ie, driver education, advanced placement classes, kindergarten, etc.) That's why contingency budgets are frequently only slightly less than the defeated budgets; many of the costs are out of the control of the BOEs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    Another deterrent to competitive elections is the artificial nature of the school districts. In 2005, we saw almost every incumbent Erie County Legislator re-elected whereas several incumbent town board members were defeated. It is easier for challengers to defeat incumbents when they are running in their own communities as opposed to special districts which cobble together different communities or neighborhoods.

    The electoral history of Erie County shows a clear pattern: incumbents are most vulnerable in small districts that correspond to organic communities, for example, Buffalo council districts, rather than larger districts which combine different neighborhoods, for example, the Erie County Legislature.

    The present regime allows special interests to use special districts and special elections to control the schools for their own purposes at the expense of the general public which is largely irrelevant to the process.

    We propose to eliminate all these school districts insofar as they constitute separate governments. We propose to eliminate all the elected school boards and special budget elections.

    Under our plan, each city or town will have its own school district. Why elect a board to run the schools when there is already a municipal legislature in each municipality? Responsibility for the schools would shift to the existing town boards, mayors and city councils. Each town board would appoint a superintendent to run the schools on a daily basis. In cities, the mayor would nominate a candidate for superintendent subject to the consent of the council. (This is presently the system in New York City.)
    What about towns like Amherst which contain at least 2 school districts and Cheektowaga which has 3 or 4? More significantly, the budget for the Buffalo Public Schools is determined by the Mayor of Buffalo and the Common Council who dole out $$ to the schools. That has worked really well in eliminating a bloated bureaucracy in the Schools Department in City Hall. You might also want to read the chapters on how Jimmy Griffin effectively crippled Buffalo public schools in Mark Goldman's City on the Lake because he wanted the court ordered integration plan to fail. Also, consider what kind of superintendent a politician like Joel Giambra would nominate to run the schools.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    In sparsely populated rural areas, perhaps towns could cluster together to form a district with each town’s supervisor serving on the school board.
    Fact: Here are just a few rural districts that have been "clustered together" for 50+ years:

    Gowanda Central School encompasses parts of the towns of Collins (Erie Co), Dayton (Cattaraugus Co), Perrysburg (Cattaraugus Co), Persia (Cattaraugus Co), and the Cattaraugus Indian Reservation (Erie and Cattaraugus Co).
    North Collins Central School includes the town of North Collins plus parts of Eden, Brant, Langford, and New Oregon.
    Lakeshore Central covers the towns of Brant, Evans, Angola, and parts of Eden and North Collins.
    Springville Central includes the Towns of Concord and Sardinia as well as parts of the towns of Collins, East Otto (Cattaraugus County).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    This alternative system has many advantages. First and foremost, the voters in general elections will elect the policymakers who run the schools. Special interests will be less likely to dominate elections when the turnout goes from 10 percent to 60 percent. All of the costs associated with special elections and with maintaining separate school boards are eliminated.

    Finally, when the schools become a department of the existing municipal government, consolidation of non-educational functions can occur. The existing parks department will replace the groundskeepers who maintain school sports fields. The public works departments can replace the school building engineers and so on with each and every expensively duplicated function.

    All in all, this proposal would eliminate 245 elected officials in Erie County alone and thousands statewide.
    "Many" advantages? You mentioned three: removal of special interests, non-educational functions can be consolidated with municipal functions, and the elimination of 245 elected officials. Again, the elimination of "special interests" is suspect. The consolidation of non-education functions is not going to happen. It hasn't happened in Buffalo or New York City. Heck, in Buffalo, the school board can't even get the names of janitors so how is it going to force them to go work for the city? The costs of school board/budget elections and school boards are miniscule in the scheme of things -- probably not even 2.5 million across the entire county (or a little more than $2.50 per resident per year) at the cost of turning control of the schools over to politicians and political parties.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Ostrowski
    In sum, costs will be reduced and the grip of special interests will be loosened, which can only lead to a greater focus on educating students which is after all supposed to be the point of it all.
    Jim, if you want to be taken seriously, you need to deal with facts not political or economic ideology. I suggest you do some real research -- ie, get facts -- rather than just "brainstorm" among your like-minded and equally uninformed buddies and admirers.

    The reason that school boards are elected separately and school budgets are voted on separately from the general elections is to try to make them non-partisan. Party affiliations are not allowed in school board cases. School budgets for the upcoming year (September) are presented to the voters in May -- at the same time that school board members are elected. Most BOEs have rotating memberships so that only a portion of their seats are up for election at any one time. As far as I know, most BOE seats pay very little if anything. Making schools subservient to partisan politicians is not going to save money or improve education as the shining example of Buffalo demonstrates.

    Moreover, your claims about "special interests" and low turn-out actually works both ways. A vocal and determined group of taxpayers' advocates can defeat school budgets and put members on the local BOE. This happened in Orchard Park a few years ago. On the other hand, many residents without children in school (ie, "average citizens") vote "yes" on school budgets because they rightly believe that good schools improve property values and make homes easier to sell because there are always people wanting to move into school districts with good schools.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  15. #15
    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The reason that school boards are elected separately and school budgets are voted on separately from the general elections is to try to make them non-partisan. Party affiliations are not allowed in school board cases. (snip)
    School boards are hardly partisan, particularly since they are the product of a socialist institution. Party affiliations are not allowed in school board cases? Which non-partisan side do NEA donations fall?

    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    First, you cannot bar anyone from an elected position because of their membership in a group.
    BTW, the latter contradicts the former.

    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    On the other hand, many residents without children in school (ie, "average citizens") vote "yes" on school budgets because they rightly believe that good schools improve property values and make homes easier to sell because there are always people wanting to move into school districts with good schools.
    In light of the shallow turnouts most school budget votes get, are you really comfortable making this sort of claim? Do you even have poll data to back this?

    Rightly believe? Forgive my kicking you off your ivory pedestal. It all boils down to this, and the rest is smoke and mirrors.

    The communities that benefit most from our high school taxes are the ones where most of our children have settled.

    I trust the point is clear.
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

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