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Thread: Eliminating school districts

  1. #31
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    Why wouldn't parents be able to find a school? Competition would spur the growth of schools. There are schools in some parts of our country now educating students at a cost of about $3000 per year per student and doing a better job than the NYS public schools which receive over $14,000 per year per student. Nichols School manages to educate students at roughly the same cost with an average of 14 students per classroom; Comprehensive tuitions for 2006-2007:
    Grade 5: $14,800
    Grades 6-8: $14,950
    Grade 9: $15,850
    Grades 10-12: $16,000

    When you compare Nichols costs and results to Public Schools, the results of Public Schools are unacceptable.

    As far as special needs children go, I have heard many complaints about the way the public schools handle them. Many schools lump developmentally disabled students in classes with students with disciplinary problems.

    The simple fact is the teachers unions, through lobbying efforts, have managed to keep any real reform from happening in NYS. Charter Schools are a good beginning, however NYS has recently capped the number of Charters in the State. Eliminating and limiting competition is a loss for everyone. Choice leads to a better product/service.

    I don't understand how anyone can defend the current system. The system doesn't work and the costs keep spiraling out of control. The only possible explanation that I can fathom is that people are so used to the current system and so resistant to change, that they are blind to the reality of the situation.

    Perfect post. I think this thread should end on this.

  2. #32
    Member mikewrona's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS
    Perfect post. I think this thread should end on this.
    Would you happen to know if Nichols accepts everyone who wants to go to school there, or, do you have to submit an application?

  3. #33
    Member Batman's Avatar
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    I don't understand how anyone can defend the current system. The system doesn't work and the costs keep spiraling out of control. The only possible explanation that I can fathom is that people are so used to the current system and so resistant to change, that they are blind to the reality of the situation.

    You can't defend it if you suspend the thought programming for a few minutes and think about it.

    People are fed propaganda about public education from the time they're in the womb so it's awful hard to challenge coventional beliefs which are nothing more than factoids.
    "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."--Carl Sagan

  4. #34
    Member Batman's Avatar
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    So, approximately, 150k plus of tax money is spent per pupil to attain a high school diploma. Think about that for a minute. Why are there so many people who can't read, write, spell, computate, etc. after that kind of an investment?
    "One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back."--Carl Sagan

  5. #35
    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Batman
    So, approximately, 150k plus of tax money is spent per pupil to attain a high school diploma. Think about that for a minute. Why are there so many people who can't read, write, spell, computate, etc. after that kind of an investment?

    Think about the situation here- all that money we spend is used to educate kids that eventually move elsewhere. Transferrance of wealth from an impoverished area is stupid, ignorant, and unfair, as is the thinking that condones it.

    Of course, this area's been exploited by socialist/unionists for decades on end.
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

  6. #36
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewrona
    Would you happen to know if Nichols accepts everyone who wants to go to school there, or, do you have to submit an application?
    Oh, you mean like the kids who have IQs around 85? or kids with psychiatric problems? or kids with severe behavioral problems? or kids with autism or ADD?

    I bet you don't find a one at Nichols or Park or Buffalo Seminary. Or in any private schools except for those specifically set up to educate special needs students like them. Those are the kids the public schools always get to educate.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  7. #37
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Oh, you mean like the kids who have IQs around 85? or kids with psychiatric problems? or kids with severe behavioral problems? or kids with autism or ADD?

    I bet you don't find a one at Nichols or Park or Buffalo Seminary. Or in any private schools except for those specifically set up to educate special needs students like them. Those are the kids the public schools always get to educate.
    If you can't make it you cant make it. Whats the problem?

  8. #38
    Member speaker's Avatar
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    I thought private schools have always required applications, not necessarily to winnow out handicapped students but to ascertain more than IQ's. Motivation and achievement is considered, and often a very gifted child will win a scholarship.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Those are the kids the public schools always get to educate.
    Can't blame the schools for stupid kids. It's the parent's fault all the way.
    First, and foremost the genetics.


    "Kids are like any other group of people. A few winners and a whole lot of losers." - George Carlin.


    Public schools are the best place for a challenged kid. They're more like the real world which is where they'll be soon enough.
    The evil hide even when no one is chasing them.- Proverbs

  10. #40
    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Oh, you mean like the kids who have IQs around 85? or kids with psychiatric problems? or kids with severe behavioral problems? or kids with autism or ADD?
    Or the ignorant several that don't understand the constitution?
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

  11. #41
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewrona
    Would you happen to know if Nichols accepts everyone who wants to go to school there, or, do you have to submit an application?

    I do not know the admission policy of Nichols. I do know that there are several schools in the area outside of the public schools that do have a loose policy of admissions. What is the point of your post Wrona, I like our debates?

  12. #42
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Oh, you mean like the kids who have IQs around 85? or kids with psychiatric problems? or kids with severe behavioral problems? or kids with autism or ADD?

    I bet you don't find a one at Nichols or Park or Buffalo Seminary. Or in any private schools except for those specifically set up to educate special needs students like them. Those are the kids the public schools always get to educate.

    You are correct, so lets place them with teachers who do not have the specialized education to handle these types of students. Lets place kids with teachers based on a union seniority system not what is best for the kids.

    Furthermore, if kids with special needs were able to have a real voucher, there could be a school created for special needs kids, run by people who specialize in special needs. Wow that sounds like a good idea.

  13. #43
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevenco
    Can't blame the schools for stupid kids. It's the parent's fault all the way.
    First, and foremost the genetics.


    "Kids are like any other group of people. A few winners and a whole lot of losers." - George Carlin.


    Public schools are the best place for a challenged kid. They're more like the real world which is where they'll be soon enough.
    Yeah, but it costs much more to educate challenged kids than it does bright kids without severe psychological or behavioral problems. All these people who brag about how much better private schools are than public ones, and how they don't spend as much but get better results, ignore the fact that those savings mostly come from not having to deal with special needs kids.

    The same is true with the charter schools. It's why parents of developmentally disabled children are among the leading opponents of charters -- their children aren't welcome because charters aren't "equipped" to deal with children who need that much attention. Ask a charter school administrator about handicapped children, and they'll all say things like "of course, they're welcome here. We have an elevator so they don't have climb the stairs!"

    BTW, if a public school doesn't provide the services that the handicapped student needs/requires and a private school does -- even if it's a boarding school in another state -- a judge can order the school district to pay those costs. That is a federal, not a state, law btw.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  14. #44
    Member leftWNYbecauseofBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    Yeah, but it costs much more to educate challenged kids than it does bright kids without severe psychological or behavioral problems. All these people who brag about how much better private schools are than public ones, and how they don't spend as much but get better results, ignore the fact that those savings mostly come from not having to deal with special needs kids.

    The same is true with the charter schools. It's why parents of developmentally disabled children are among the leading opponents of charters -- their children aren't welcome because charters aren't "equipped" to deal with children who need that much attention. Ask a charter school administrator about handicapped children, and they'll all say things like "of course, they're welcome here. We have an elevator so they don't have climb the stairs!"

    BTW, if a public school doesn't provide the services that the handicapped student needs/requires and a private school does -- even if it's a boarding school in another state -- a judge can order the school district to pay those costs. That is a federal, not a state, law btw.

    In a true charter and voucher system, not like the botched one in the US, there would be schools just for these types of students. They would provide the BEST education possible. Better than any program in the public schools.

    See under a real voucher system, every kid gets the same credit and it follows him or her, wherever he or she attends.

    If there are 300 kids in the city with special needs, that would equate to 3.9 million a year for JUST THOSE KIDS.

    10 kids per teacher = 30 teachers
    30 teachers @ 75k = 2.25 million
    10 aids @ 35k = 350k
    2 administrators @ 100k = 200k
    Facilities/ Infrastructure = 750k
    Support staff 3 @ 40k = 120k
    Utilities and Supplies = 150k

    80k in the bank

  15. #45
    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    All these people who brag about how much better private schools are than public ones, and how they don't spend as much but get better results, ignore the fact that those savings mostly come from not having to deal with special needs kids.
    You never seem to tire when it comes to making stuff up, do you?

    A simple request, one that any of us several ignorant folks here can all understand. Prove what you just wrote. This link will help.

    http://www.emsc.nysed.gov/mgtserv/pr...06-6-13-06.htm
    "At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin

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