America divided

[BorderBob]

Why is it that the frustration of the left so often results in vulgarity?

No, you give me a break. Concerning support for landmark legislation such as The Affordable Care Act, most Presidents found reaching across the isle quite helpful. Some examples:

(1) The Marshall Plan, the legislative components of the Truman Doctrine, and the NATO Treaty all received bi partisan support.

(2) Lyndon Johnson was able to pass the proposed Kennedy tax cuts in 1964 by reaching across the aisle. Those tax cuts received the support of 21 Republicans in the Senate alone.

(3) The Johnson-Kennedy 1964 Civil Rights Act received 136 Republican votes in the House, and 30 Republican votes in the Senate.

(4) Nixon found reaching across the isle helpful in 1972 when a Democrat Senate overwhelmingly passed SALT I 88-2.

(5) Reagan found Tip O'Neil's support helpful when it came to implementing aspects of his program.

(6) Bill Clinton worked with Newt Gingrich and Bob Dole on Welfare Reform and the Brady Bill.

It went both ways, Democrat Presidents relied on Republican legislators, and Republican Presidents relied on Democrat legislators.

More recently, the tones took a serious downturn.

BTW, President Obama today recommended that President-elect Trump avoid executive orders and be inclusive of Democrat ideas concerning legislation and issues of significance, because the legislative process is "harder to undo."

I agree with Obama's current advise. I disagreed with President's with his 2009 and 2010 previous approach.

None of them had to deal with an opposition party who, on inauguration day, declared their opposition to EVERY proposal of the new President in hopes of making him a one term President. By that utter failure alone, you would think a different approach might be considered. For now, Karma and Payback will be the acceptable responses. There is a meme floating around Facebook right now, an angry old white guy proclaiming his hatred for Obama. Everything from NOT MY PRESIDENT to the Kenyan/Muslim President and so on. Underneath that is the same angry old white guy saying stuff like you must support your President or it is treason. You cannot have it both ways

This country is headed to some dark times. Torture is making a comeback. Gingrich says Trump should preemptively PARDON his family for the coming kleptocratic conflicts of interest by his family and billionaire friends. The FOP is out today telling Trump to roll back Bush era prohibitions on racial profiling by law enforcement. Who is in favor of racial profiling?

In a year or two, when the deplorables learn that there will be no wall or return of American jobs. Hillary won't be convicted of any crimes. All the red meat Trump fed at his rallys. But their Social Security will be gutted along with their Medicare (both paid by payroll deductions) They will get a few pennies back in taxes while the debt roars to new heights.

Then we can have this discussion again.




b.b.

[abc123]

Well, perhaps if President Obama had reached across the isle for input and support of his more significant legislative proposals in 2009 and 2010, he may have avoided the loss of the House in 2010, along with the promised opposition. Rather, he contented himself with soundbites such as "Elections have consequences," and "Hey John, you lost the election." That attitude, along with the Reconciliation tactic employed in the Senate during consideration of the Affordable Care Act, may have flexed Democrat muscle, but weakened bi partisan consensus.

Most Presidents have found it helpful to engage opposition support for legislation having great national significance.

this is fiction to the point of absurdity

[mark blazejewski]

None of them had to deal with an opposition party who, on inauguration day, declared their opposition to EVERY proposal of the new President in hopes of making him a one term President. By that utter failure alone, you would think a different approach might be considered. For now, Karma and Payback will be the acceptable responses. There is a meme floating around Facebook right now, an angry old white guy proclaiming his hatred for Obama. Everything from NOT MY PRESIDENT to the Kenyan/Muslim President and so on. Underneath that is the same angry old white guy saying stuff like you must support your President or it is treason. You cannot have it both ways

This country is headed to some dark times. Torture is making a comeback. Gingrich says Trump should preemptively PARDON his family for the coming kleptocratic conflicts of interest by his family and billionaire friends. The FOP is out today telling Trump to roll back Bush era prohibitions on racial profiling by law enforcement. Who is in favor of racial profiling?

In a year or two, when the deplorables learn that there will be no wall or return of American jobs. Hillary won't be convicted of any crimes. All the red meat Trump fed at his rallys. But their Social Security will be gutted along with their Medicare (both paid by payroll deductions) They will get a few pennies back in taxes while the debt roars to new heights.

Then we can have this discussion again.




b.b.

Yea, do you remember Inauguration Day, 1969? I recall Nixon came into a very hostile situation. Do you remember the 1980 transition? Reagan was an amiable dunce? Do you remember what happened to John Tower during the first week of the Bush 41 administration? Do you remember Inaugural Day 2001: "He's Not My President," and "His Fraudulence?" I also remember the bitterness of Inaugural Day, 1993 against "Slick Willy."

Yet, all of these men, including Bill Clinton, were able to look beyond the name calling and petty obstructionist tactics, and work with their respective opposition for the good of the country, I guess that "What separates," as Eric Sevareid once said, "the men from the boys in politics." " The Men want to do something; the boys want to be somebody."

[mark blazejewski]

this is fiction to the point of absurdity

I think you will find the quotes accurate. Those quotes were aimed at Eric Cantor, I believe, and John McCain regarding their questions on "Obamacare." Do you remember Nancy Pelosi's admonishment: "We have to pass the bill before we know what's in it?" And, Harry Reid DID use Reconciliation in the process of passing "Obamacare."

[abc123]

I think you will find the quotes accurate.

yes, a couple uppity quotes and the republicans were justified in being obstructionists to historically unprecedented level

meanwhile, in the reality based community, Obama very publically reached out to republicans on healthcare in attempt at a bi-partisan bill. the most memorable occasion being a 7 hour long, televised summit. ring a bell?

[mark blazejewski]

yes, a couple uppity quotes and the republicans were justified in being obstructionists to historically unprecedented level

meanwhile, in the reality based community, Obama very publically reached out to republicans on healthcare in attempt at a bi-partisan bill. the most memorable occasion being a 7 hour long, televised summit. ring a bell?

Yep, that when McCain was told he lost the election. Ding Dong. And, it was more than the quotes. IT WAS THE PROCESS. "We have to pass the bill before we know what is in it." How thoughtful, inclusive and brilliant. Ding Dong., Don't forget the Reconciliation thing. Ding Dong.

[BorderBob]

Yea, do you remember Inauguration Day, 1969? I recall Nixon came into a very hostile situation. Do you remember the 1980 transition? Reagan was an amiable dunce? Do you remember what happened to John Tower during the first week of the Bush 41 administration? Do you remember Inaugural Day 2001: "He's Not My President," and "His Fraudulence?" I also remember the bitterness of Inaugural Day, 1993 against "Slick Willy."

Yet, all of these men, including Bill Clinton, were able to look beyond the name calling and petty obstructionist tactics, and work with their respective opposition for the good of the country, I guess that "What separates," as Eric Sevareid once said, "the men from the boys in politics." " The Men want to do something; the boys want to be somebody."

I was 13 when Nixon was elected. Wasn't thinking much about politics. I have said, for months if not years now, that the internet is to blame. Social media and venues like this one, for much of the division. It is an echo chamber. It attracts both the good and the bad of what we are.

I don't see that much changing, only getting worse.




b.b.

[Lee Chowaniec]

democratic leadership is not at all talking like republican leadership was in 2010. it is not the same.

Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to National Journal: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

not to mention the president elects personal, years long, racist campaign to de-legitimize the president with the birther conspiracy nonsense

on the other hand, in 2016:

“As President-elect Trump indicated last night, investing in infrastructure is an important priority of his,” announced Nancy Pelosi. “We can work together to quickly pass a robust infrastructure jobs bill.”

Then, how will Democrats work with President Trump?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: We challenge him -- work with us and keep your promises to blue-collar America.

what lee is talking about are criticisms of trump generally since the election.

- stands alone and in opposition to his own party in refusing to accept intelligence consensus on Russian hacking
- promoting doubt in our intelligence agencies when he doesn't like their conclusion
- hasn't separated his business interests from his soon to be official duties. scheduled an announcement, cancelled it, hasn't rescheduled
- cabinet appointees that are the polar opposite of the swamp draining he promised
- flipped from punishing those who outsource jobs to rewarding those who outsource less than what they threatened to
- has not had a press conference since july. none scheduled. every other president elect in the last 40 years had a press conference within days of election
- seems far more interested in gloating about the election than focusing on governing even though he takes office in a month
- continuing petty personal teen angst twitter tirades against citizens of this country

those criticisms are not without merit lee. maybe instead of whining about democrats, you would like to take up a few and explain why trump should not be criticized?

As stated in other posts, but which you fail to accept:

Sad, but the “anyone but Hillary” path was chosen; along with needed change.

Trump was not my choice in the field of the 16 Republican candidates vying for election; flawed indeed, but nowhere near Hillary.

Trump says many off the wall things and often walks many of them back.

Trump has not taken office and actually took action on any policy. So, what would you like me to criticize him on?

[BorderBob]

Oh, and my favorite from 2000, "Bush wasn't elected, he was selected."



b.b.

[abc123]

Yep, that when McCain was told he lost the election. Ding Dong. And, it was more than the quotes. IT WAS THE PROCESS. "We have to pass the bill before we know what is in it." How thoughtful, inclusive and brilliant. Ding Dong., Don't forget the Reconciliation thing. Ding Dong.

lol at the process. you are all over the board. you claimed that Obama did not reach across the aisle for input. that is materially false. reconciliation was the last ditch attempt to get something signed into law.

your claim that there was no attempt to reach across the aisle is false. pants on fire false.

[buffalopundit]

There you go again with the hyper demagoguery. BTW, SOCIALISTS and COMMUNISTS ARE FAR LEFT, not far right.

Yeah, I'm talking about the Republicans.

[abc123]

As stated in other posts, but which you fail to accept:

Sad, but the “anyone but Hillary” path was chosen; along with needed change.

Trump was not my choice in the field of the 16 Republican candidates vying for election; flawed indeed, but nowhere near Hillary.

Trump says many off the wall things and often walks many of them back.

Trump has not taken office and actually took action on any policy. So, what would you like me to criticize him on?

i don't care if you criticize him or not. you are complaining about the left criticizing trump. i listed some of the current criticisms. you dismiss them all out of hand with "trump says many off the wall things".

i suppose that could be used to justify anything, and by your response i conclude that is acceptable to you.

Hillary Clinton once said 1/3 of trump voters are a basket of deplorables. she says off the wall things sometimes, so its all good!

[HipKat]

democratic leadership is not at all talking like republican leadership was in 2010. it is not the same.

Here’s John Boehner, the likely speaker if Republicans take the House, offering his plans for Obama’s agenda: “We're going to do everything — and I mean everything we can do — to kill it, stop it, slow it down, whatever we can.”

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell summed up his plan to National Journal: “The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president.”

not to mention the president elects personal, years long, racist campaign to de-legitimize the president with the birther conspiracy nonsense

on the other hand, in 2016:

“As President-elect Trump indicated last night, investing in infrastructure is an important priority of his,” announced Nancy Pelosi. “We can work together to quickly pass a robust infrastructure jobs bill.”

Then, how will Democrats work with President Trump?

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER, D-N.Y.: We challenge him -- work with us and keep your promises to blue-collar America.

what lee is talking about are criticisms of trump generally since the election.

- stands alone and in opposition to his own party in refusing to accept intelligence consensus on Russian hacking
- promoting doubt in our intelligence agencies when he doesn't like their conclusion
- hasn't separated his business interests from his soon to be official duties. scheduled an announcement, cancelled it, hasn't rescheduled
- cabinet appointees that are the polar opposite of the swamp draining he promised
- flipped from punishing those who outsource jobs to rewarding those who outsource less than what they threatened to
- has not had a press conference since july. none scheduled. every other president elect in the last 40 years had a press conference within days of election
- seems far more interested in gloating about the election than focusing on governing even though he takes office in a month
- continuing petty personal teen angst twitter tirades against citizens of this country

those criticisms are not without merit lee. maybe instead of whining about democrats, you would like to take up a few and explain why trump should not be criticized?

Again, I defer to the Vice interview with Obama, Boehner and Cantor. I actually found respect for Boehner as he goes into depth about how he and Obama had had meetings and deals but was pressured, then finally ousted by thew Tea Party and hardline Conservatives. Before the interview I had always thought of Boehner as a complete prick.

[Lee Chowaniec]

The exact same thing that happened in 2010 when the Republicans took over Congress, they vowed to block everything Obama proposed.

If you supported that then, you can't complain about it now.

Seriously, you are going to equate what takes place in our inept/dysfunctional government with the aftermath of this election and the organizing taking place now to involve the public to disrupt our government’s future administration? And then for some to use the kindergarten rebut of, “you started it.” That’s good for our country how?

You’re ok with the intimidation and threats leveled against people in the private sector who don’t tow the leftist line?

Who said I supported the likes of Mitch McConnell who voiced open opposition to Obama’s administration? What happened in the past and what is taking place now is counterproductive to the best interests of the country and the citizenry should not be misled in following such practices by either party.

[mark blazejewski]

lol at the process. you are all over the board. you claimed that Obama did not reach across the aisle for input. that is materially false. reconciliation was the last ditch attempt to get something signed into law.

your claim that there was no attempt to reach across the aisle is false. pants on fire false.

Insulting the very people whose input you desire, at a public meeting, purportedly arranged to acquire such input, is not an olive branch, it is Poison Ivy. Obama's "Elections have consequences" remarks seemingly revealed an apparent insincerity regarding the outreach. Apparently, in your world, the superficial perception of inclusiveness transcends the tangible reality of unwavering, entrenched partisanship.

Your comments about Reconciliation seems to support my point: The "Affordable Care Act" was going to get rammed through, no matter what the deficits, or what anyone thought of it. It appears now that it was not well thought out. President Obama says that it needs adjustment. Bill Clinton called it, I believe, a "crazy system." Reid's Reconciliation may have been good politics, but poor governance. That was my point I was trying to make in my previous posts regarding the historic bi partisan cooperation/efforts on issues of national significance.