What is this crap about "GOvernment" employees always being "grandfathered" in?

[WNYresident]

What is this crap about "GOvernment" employees always being "grandfathered" in?

How does one fix the system if you allow things to continue in the first place?

If you have 500 employees who get "grandfathered" in with current contracts there were no changes. YES all new employees which are a VERY SMALL percentage of total employees get less but the money but the MONKEY causing the issue is still on your back. It does not get smaller because the "monkey" is grandfathered in.

[unioncop]

so when they did away with the teir 1 for all new employees it didnt change anything huh cause as far as I understand it there are only a hand full of teir 1 employees in our department anymore thus changing the system

[WNYresident]

It took years before all the tier 1 employees died off. I want to see CHANGE NOW not after I'm dead. Doesn't do me any good to have taxes finally lowered once i'm DEAD. CHANGE NOW, not later. I want it to effect my pocket book now.

Like Brian Higgins thinking that by us investing in the water front will help you or I. It won't. It will only be relevant to the people on the receiving end and no one else. BUt in the mean time you and I are subsidizing the developement with higher electrical cost.

I really don't give a **** about anyone except me and the people I know.

[Dougles]

I saw a story on CNN yesterday the currently, the states have a total of a 2 TRILLION dollar pension liability! I think it's about time the pays of govt empolyees are increased a little and pensions FOR EVERYONE are done away with! When the market drops and NYS loses 33% or 50 BILLION of it's pension fund, how and why is it my responsibility to make that up?

[Deerhunter]

Do you think the City's contribution replenishes the fund to it's highest level ? Look into that at the Comptrollers website.

As far as people being "grandfathered" in, it is about honoring a contract. When people take jobs, you sign up for a retirement tier.(Govt job) You sign a contract with the municipality. As part of your compensation pkg you will recieve X.

When conditions change, either through legislation or negotiation the terms of a contract for new employees can be altered. As we have seen quite frequently lately there have been buyouts that have been an incentive for a worker to retire. We see this primarily in the Private sector. Maybe someday we'll see it more in the Public sector.

It comes down to a contract. Some people think it is Ok to ignore, change, alter a contract because it is no longer to their liking.
Some people are true to their word.
I would say it depends on what kind of person you are as to your outlook.

[unioncop]

I really don't give a **** about anyone except me and the people I know.

is your name byron brown?

[WNYresident]

I'm sorry but I really don't when it comes the matters of money. The spending has to be cut.. simple as that... Don't give me any excuse of compassion and being cold hearted. It has nothing to do with that.

There are no obligations...Why place such a burden on a community? Specially when the burden makes the community not competitive against other communities?

Who was ever representing the non government labor and non government business owners did a very poor job. So poor I would say incompetent. Just my opinion though.

[Deerhunter]

If this dimwit DiNapoli had a brain in his head, and wasn't bought and paid for, maybe he could have acted when the market was tanking, the contributions from municipalities wouldn't be what they are. People like to forget that during much of the 90's the municipalities didn't pay anything towards the retirement. That was when Mario Cuomo wanted to raid the fund. DiNapoli could have had the money in safe accounts when it was at 156 billion. The fund need only produce 6 billion to pay out to state worker retirees. A 4% return. But he is a moron, and outside influences kept the money in the hands of obviously inept overpaid money managers that couldn't sustain anything. As well, when the fund is doing well, leave it alone. Anything over 8% goes into the States general fund. Keep that money in the fund and the municipalities won't have to contribute anything.

[Deerhunter]

don't hate the player......Some want to take their anger out at the people in Govt jobs. I realize many people don't like Cops, esp when we leave a room. But we didn't create the tax system. If all you paid for was police protection it would amount to 10% of your tax bill if you live in Bflo.

I purposely pursued the job I have. Same as anybody else. Something I wanted to do that offered benefits and a retirement. No excuses here.

So unless I am going to be bought out, I would expect to be "grandfathered" in on any changes. I am keeping up my end of the contract, all I would expect from them is the same consideration. A contract is a contract. When I pay a plumber to come to my house I don't agree on a price, then tell him, after the work is done, sorry, I don't like that price, I'll give you half what we initially agreed. That is larceny.

[4248]

Maybe what they should do is reduce pension pay outs by the percent of overtime paid in the three highest years of employment.

Lets say someone earns twenty percent over - take 5% off that years calculation. So if a employee makes $50,000.00 base and $15,000.00 over , take $5000.00 off that years total credit. This would bring them back to $60,000.00 credit for that year.

Anything over 10% gets deducted from each year.

[4248]

don't hate the player......Some want to take their anger out at the people in Govt jobs. I realize many people don't like Cops, esp when we leave a room. But we didn't create the tax system. If all you paid for was police protection it would amount to 10% of your tax bill if you live in Bflo.

.

Buffalo's taxes are subsidized by State and Federal Funds - if you took that away then you'd see the truth. I will look into how much property taxes bring in and get back tomorrow.

[Deerhunter]

The City is funded with City, State , and Federal dollars. As is every City. You don't like the formula ? Too bad. That is reality.

[dtwarren]

Getting back to the question at hand it depends on what source the benefit is granted by. From the initial post I take it to be the new pension tier and why hasn't it been applied to those hired prior to its effective date. N.Y. Const. art. V, § 7, protects as "a contractual relationship" the benefits of membership in a public pension or retirement system against diminishment and impairment. The provision fixes the rights of the employees at the time of commencement of membership in a pension or retirement system, rather than as previously at retirement, and thus prohibits unilateral action by either the employer or the legislature that impairs or diminishes the rights established by the employee's membership.

On the other hand a particular benefit is derived solely from a contract then it may be negotiated to apply to all employees regardless of when they were hired (i.e. sick time, vacation time, health insurance, etc.)

[DennisMulqueen]

If this dimwit DiNapoli had a brain in his head, and wasn't bought and paid for, maybe he could have acted when the market was tanking, the contributions from municipalities wouldn't be what they are. People like to forget that during much of the 90's the municipalities didn't pay anything towards the retirement. That was when Mario Cuomo wanted to raid the fund. DiNapoli could have had the money in safe accounts when it was at 156 billion. The fund need only produce 6 billion to pay out to state worker retirees. A 4% return. But he is a moron, and outside influences kept the money in the hands of obviously inept overpaid money managers that couldn't sustain anything. As well, when the fund is doing well, leave it alone. Anything over 8% goes into the States general fund. Keep that money in the fund and the municipalities won't have to contribute anything.

The reason this never happened is becuse their friends on Wall Street would have withheld the "much needed donations" to candidates for office. I have always said the same thing.Why couldn't they put it in a safe account? got to help your buddies though.

[4248]

1. Deerhunter posted,"police protection it would amount to 10% of your tax bill if you live in Bflo."
   Then later posted:
2. Deerhunter said: "The City is funded with City, State , and Federal dollars. As is every City. You don't like the formula ? Too bad. That is reality."

Now at first you were using the old, "Drop in the Bucket" line. Trying to disguise the true impact of the cost of "Police & Fire Protection" to City residents.

Thats what I and many others don't like - the manipulation - misinformation used to mislead the uninformed. You do that to try and persuade people to agree with your point of view.

You knew when you sited 10% as the BPD portion of Buffalo's budget - you were misleading. So you then change up and add in State and Federal Contributions.

Well Sir, as we here in New York know thats shrinking and will likely continue to shrink. Also if that were not included in our City Budget income - your mere 10% would go out the window.

By the way, where do the Feds and State get their funding - TAXES. Tax's we pay every day, on everything we do. The money they give "Us" comes from "Us" - Government creates nothing - they redistribute our tax dollars after keeping what they need to pay the cost of bureaucracy.

I am not saying you don't earn your pay - I say you all do everyday - doing things and taking risks some people wouldn't dream of. But don't use that to justify stashing the cash by manipulating the system - one you are sworn to protect.

A soldier is sworn to protect his Country - does he then justify pillaging a village by saying he doesn't get paid enough? I don't think so - he goes to war and takes what he's given.

If he gets woke up for an extra shift of duty - does he tell his commander, "I want time and a half or I ain't going." - I don't think so.

The problem with City workers was industry - City workers keep crying about the pay and benefits the steel workers got - the pay and benefits the auto workers got - well like you say, you chose to be a Cop or a Fire Fighter or a garbage man.

But you still want what others got - well guess what - those jobs are gone - many of those workers lost their health care and even pensions because they were private companies.

Keep sticking it to the "The City + The Mayor = taxpayer" and soon a volunteer will be in my seat or some half wit Brinks truck driver with a 44 MAG will be in your seat.

While our sons and daughters will be working at WalMart.