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Thread: Sheldon Silver in line for NY pension, though not if Preet Bharara has his way

  1. #16
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    Does a private employee lose the employer share contributed to his/her 401(k) if they are convicted of a crime?

    Do they lose the employer contributions towards their Social Security?

    Irrelevant comparing a 401k to a government based pension. Two different types of accounts.

    Social security is also different to a government pension.

    The main reason to do this is to keep elected people "honest".

  2. #17
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    Should public servants be held to a higher standard? Is it more egregious when a priest or cop commits a crime than an average citizen? Abuse of trust is perhaps the worst platform from which a crime can be committed in my opinion. Most importantly.......

    Should people that abused the trust of their constituency continue to benefit from those they harmed? The owners of this particular "401k" are the public. A private company may not be directly harmed if Joe Dirt gets a DWI. Would a person get their pension if they committed embezzlement?

    It's time that we really give this matter a long hard look.
    Where do you draw the public\private line? What about a private employer that receives a majority of its revenue from contracts with the government?
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  3. #18
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    The line should be drawn at - "ELECTED OR APPOINTED TAX FUNDED Officials/EMPLOYEE"


    See they say those entrusted with "Public Trust" should be held to a higher standard. But when it comes to protecting a "Public Servants tax funded pensions and benefits" - then they say - why not treat us like private sector workers ?

    Then run government like a business - you don't produce - we fire you !

    You steal from us - we fire you - you use our tax funded equipment for personal reasons - we fire you.

    Then they'll say - you cant fire me till the next election and only if I cant con enough people to reelect me ! BS

    Caught abusing your position/trust - you should be gone - no pension - no cash buy outs. Done !

    There's no accountability - that's the problem, there's no way we can react when they get caught !

    "Silver's defense attorney, Steven Molo, argued that the federal government was trying to make Albany's long tradition of backroom dealing illegal. "It makes some people uncomfortable, but that is the system New York state has chosen, and it is not a crime," Molo said on Nov. 3 during opening statements. "The prosecutors are trying to make it a crime, but it's not."

    There in lays the problem - they are held to a different standard.
    Conspiracy is legal
    - graft is legal
    - manipulation of Union Contracts for votes is legal.
    They should be illegal and is for normal working/taxpaying citizens !
    Last edited by 4248; December 3rd, 2015 at 09:21 PM.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    Where do you draw the public\private line? What about a private employer that receives a majority of its revenue from contracts with the government?
    Public/private? We are talking about consequences for public servants that have betrayed public's trust. I am not sure you can construct a law or paradigm to account for outliers above. I assume such cases would be litigated to as Silver's was to determine culpability and damages. Governor Cuomo and the senate had on the books a change in state law to cancel pensions of those lawmakers convicted of a felony, unfortunately the assembly did nothing with it. This shows that there is some government support to stop this.


    Obviously, in life it is possible for one to erase a lifetime of hardwork and earnings with felonious choices. Just ask any trial lawyer who specializes in civil litigation.

  5. #20
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    Public/private? We are talking about consequences for public servants that have betrayed public's trust. I am not sure you can construct a law or paradigm to account for outliers above. I assume such cases would be litigated to as Silver's was to determine culpability and damages. Governor Cuomo and the senate had on the books a change in state law to cancel pensions of those lawmakers convicted of a felony, unfortunately the assembly did nothing with it. This shows that there is some government support to stop this.

    Obviously, in life it is possible for one to erase a lifetime of hardwork and earnings with felonious choices. Just ask any trial lawyer who specializes in civil litigation.
    This also shows you there are those in government who don't. Who's desk would this be sitting on in the Assembly that it would not have gone up for a vote?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident View Post
    This also shows you there are those in government who don't. Who's desk would this be sitting on in the Assembly that it would not have gone up for a vote?
    The whole thing is absurd, in my opinion its not even debatable. The Assembly should pay for his pension.

  7. #22
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    The whole thing is absurd, in my opinion its not even debatable. The Assembly should pay for his pension.
    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    Public/private? We are talking about consequences for public servants that have betrayed public's trust. I am not sure you can construct a law or paradigm to account for outliers above. I assume such cases would be litigated to as Silver's was to determine culpability and damages. Governor Cuomo and the senate had on the books a change in state law to cancel pensions of those lawmakers convicted of a felony, unfortunately the assembly did nothing with it. This shows that there is some government support to stop this.


    Obviously, in life it is possible for one to erase a lifetime of hardwork and earnings with felonious choices. Just ask any trial lawyer who specializes in civil litigation.
    They have to pay it because currently that is the law.

  8. #23
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    unfortunately the assembly did nothing with it. This shows that there is some government support to stop this.
    This is not entirely true. The Assembly passed it in June (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?def...&Memo=Y&Text=Y ). That version of the bill has not yet been passed by the state Senate, which supports a different version. The Senate version would be limited to elected officials while the Assembly version is applicable to all public employees. So until both houses come to an agreement on the scope it will go no where. Even once they do agree on its scope it has to be passed by two consecutive Legislature and then voted on by the voters of New York since it would amend the N.Y. Constitution.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

  9. #24
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    Typical Political stall tactics - find one point you can argue - debate it then shelf it! This way the amendment goes no where and they don't expose the true objections. The true objection is most of them would forfeit pensions if the law was passed .

    They way they twisted it - they can claim they shelved it to protect "Employees" - not themselves.
    #Dems play musical chairs + patronage and nepotism = entitlement !

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dtwarren View Post
    This is not entirely true. The Assembly passed it in June (http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?def...&Memo=Y&Text=Y ). That version of the bill has not yet been passed by the state Senate, which supports a different version. The Senate version would be limited to elected officials while the Assembly version is applicable to all public employees. So until both houses come to an agreement on the scope it will go no where. Even once they do agree on its scope it has to be passed by two consecutive Legislature and then voted on by the voters of New York since it would amend the N.Y. Constitution.
    Hopefully the Silver situation will bring much needed impetus to the matter. It must change, it is not right.

  11. #26
    Member dtwarren's Avatar
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    Quite frankly I do not believe Elected officials should be eligible to be in the state pension system at all.
    “We in America do not have government by the majority. We have government by the majority who participate.” ― Thomas Jefferson

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