Reply With QuoteCar and Driver article can be found here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-promises.html
The last three administrations have shown an appalling lack of foresight regarding energy, for both it's use and research. As a result, we now see extraordinary concerns with energy. Current issues involving Israel and Lebanon have raised crude oil prices to all-time highs. And on TV, you now see commercials for automobiles capable of being powered by 85% ethanol
(E85).
The corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) is a requirement that auto manufacturers meet an average mileage figure for most of their product line. This is currently set at 27.5MPG for cars; light trucks are set at 22.2MPG. It has some value in terms of reducing oil dependency, but only cars and light trucks are affected by the CAFE constraint.
E85 is a mixture of 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline. What these commercials left unsaid about ethanol, if you'll pardon the pun, is sobering. Ethanol has less energy than an equivalent volume of gasoline. You can look forward to
a mileage decrease of about 30% using E85; my 350-mile tank would get me about 250 miles down the road with E85. Another point- on average, 16 stations, per state, sell E85. The real concern, though, is how CAFE is impacted.
The CAFE mileage is determined by averaging the E85 and 100% gasoline mileage.
Therein lies the rub- the government calculates E85 mileage by ONLY counting the 15% gasoline content. Car and Driver magazine recently tested a 5.3L V-8 Chevy Tahoe for E85 performance. They observed E85 mileage of 11 city/15 highway and a gasoline mileage of 15 city/21 highway. This puts the CAFE mileage at about 33.3MPG, substantially raising GM's fleet average.
Conclusion? Despite the fact that this truck fails the 22.2MPG CAFE mandate, it now passes simply because the engine can run E85.
We are a long way off from a renewable auto fuel. Brazil's success with sugar cane is not an option in the US; our climate cannot support it. For good or for ill, we are stuck with corn as our ethanol feedstock. Whether or not this is the best option remains open for discussion; however, that discussion is largely academic. Why?
Consider- the state that leads the US in corn production also hosts the first presidential primary.
This issue directly impacts every person, directly or indirectly.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin
Car and Driver article can be found here:
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-promises.html
"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin
The facts you have posted here are why I get very upset over government subsidies for ethanol. It is a waste of the taxpayers money to invest in the Medina plant.
The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
And how much money is the government investing in the Medina Plant?Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
Last edited by mikewrona; July 27th, 2006 at 11:01 PM.
$6 million in direct aid from the State. Another possible $25 million from the Feds. Approximately 6 million bushels of corn will be used. The subsidy for that corn is approximately $11.1 million dollars. I'm quite confident there are other tax incentives, subsidies, and corporate welfare schemes involved.
The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
No! $6 million dollars is for upgrading the roads. Which will also be used by other businesses that will come into the area..
The corn subsidy is not going to the ethanol plant. Why would you say it is? And the corn subsidy is paid whether the corn goes for ethanol or not.
"Possible" $25 million federal. You said that the subsidy is already being paid to the Medina Plant.
One thing I've found about you is that you make up your own facts.
It's an $88 million dollar project. $82 million is in cash and a business line of credit from BANKS.
I guess you know more than Governor Pataki.
It is all in the press release except for the corn subsidy. Do your homework next time before accusing me of making up facts, you just continue to make yourself look like a gullible recipient of large government.Governor George E. Pataki today announced nearly $6 million in State funding to assist Western New York Energy (WNYE) in the development of the first state-of-the-art dry mill ethanol plant in New York State.
The corn subsidy is relevant because it factors in to the true cost of ethanol.
The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
Unlike you, my information is first hand. I personally know the Town Supervisor of Shelby; I've questioned the Orleans County Planning Board at a couple of meetings concerning the ethanol plant; I've talked to Mike Sawyer, one of the principals; I know three of the Orleans Clounty Legislators who support the project; and I have friends who live in the Bates Rd/RT 31 area. All you have is your totally biased and close minded opinion based on a newspaper article from the Rochester Democrat or Buffalo News. Nothing else.
You who don't even mention that WNY Energy is investing $82 million of the TOTAL $88 million cost. (The 6 million is the state roads money)
You only know what you google.
You would have us believe that you've become an ethanol authority because you've read a press release? You must have stayed at a Holiday Innn Express.
NEWS FLASH
The Governor of the State of New York issues a press release full of erroneous information. Mike Wrona, who know people in high places, sets the record straight.
Give me a break. You are giving us nothing buy hearsay. Every person you mentioned has a vested financial interest in seeing the project built. They don't care where the money comes from. Show some proof!
The path is clear
Though no eyes can see
The course laid down long before.
And so with gods and men
The sheep remain inside their pen,
Though many times they've seen the way to leave.
Haven't you learn the built it they will come doesn't hold much water anymore? I mean it will happen in some areas but that concept isn't batting 100% here in WNYNo! $6 million dollars is for upgrading the roads. Which will also be used by other businesses that will come into the area..
Buffalo Web Hosting and Graphic Design
www.onlinemedia.net - www.vinyl-graphics.com
Web hosting / Web Design - Signs, Banners, Vehicle Graphics
Nuclear power. It works. Check the rest of the world.
That is NOT true, if you think otherwise you are thinking of a different subsidy.
http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-02-97.html
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=6391
http://www.fumento.com/fuel.html
http://www.fumento.com/oxyfuels.html
For starters.
"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin
Next time you see them, would you ask them about the science behind this sham? I'd love to hear these whoppers.
"At a minimum, a head of state should have a head."- Vladimir Putin
how many nuclear cars do they have over there I havent heard of any every being built
One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Posting Permissions