May 19, 2015 school board election and budget vote

[WNYresident]

so, i ask again, if you *knew* that was going to occur, would you still support changing the name back?

This is such a non-important issue to waste so much time and effort on.

If you think about it for a moment it makes sense to change the name. You saw the bad press nationally the "redskin" mascot name received on TV. Why would a group of people want to highlight Lancaster that way?

Do you want people to think this is the Lancaster community picnic?



You know people are going to frame the issue in that manner. Those racist.

It is a high school lacross team. A good lesson for the kids is to be considerate of others. Personally I wouldn't be offended if the mascot was some Polish figure or some Italian figure but I know other people would be.

THE ONLY legit argument to keep the name is if American Indians were the team members.

[skoorbekim]

abc123,

I am not sure how to be more clear. I support the Redskins name.

If there was a credible actionable threat to Lancaster students I would vigilantly apprehend and charge those perpetrators as criminals within the full extent of the law...
I would not cower, run, and hide.

There most certainly was a violation of due process; the elected BOE officials acted without respect for their constituents or for the law.

Are you postulating that the state passed a law banning "native-themed" mascots or are you referring to a political position intoned by certain state officials?

Can you recite a previous mascot lawsuit to cite as precedent?

[Lee Chowaniec]

it was a direct question. why didn't you answer?

there was no "due process" violation here. the state's position has been that native-themed mascots should be retired a dozen years ago. our board considered this issue for 6 months. it was their decision and everyone knew it. there were multiple opportunities for all citizens to have their voices heard. did you really want this issue to have lingered on and wasted the boards time for more months? i have to wonder if we should discuss mascots for a year or more how long should a budget take? or curriculum changes or other things that actually affect the district? are you a fan of a slow inefficient government or something?

lawsuits don't have to be ultimately successful in order to be filed and expensive to defend. it is entirely within the realm of reason that a student could have a case against the district under the dignity for all students act, and an enterprising civil rights attorney would be more than happy to take up a potentially lucrative challenge like that.

so, i ask again, if you *knew* that was going to occur, would you still support changing the name back?

Excellent posts - this and the prior one. Facts and common sense!

[skoorbekim]

WNYresident,

Congratulations,
You have posted this thread's ultimate non sequitur.

I am not a member of the KKK...

There is not one team mascot in all of sports that is an accurate representation of the players that participate...

[skoorbekim]

Excellent posts - this and the prior one. Facts and common sense!

Fear = common sense?

No thank you...

[WNYresident]

Are you purposely not seeing the point I made? I did not say you are a member of the KKK.

I said "You know people are going to frame the issue in that manner. Those racist."

I said "You saw the bad press nationally the "redskin" mascot name received on TV. Why would a group of people want to highlight Lancaster that way? "

There is not one team mascot in all of sports that is an accurate representation of the players that participate...

That is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

[abc123]

thank you lee. long time lurker.

mike - you could be clearer by actually answering the question posed. you have not done so in 2 opportunities.

i did not state that the state passed a law banning native themed mascots. i said the state's position is that native themed mascots should be retired, which is fact. it has been their position for a dozen years (http://www.aistm.org/2001nysed.htm). DASA has been the law for 3 years or so. your distinction of "credible, actionable threat" is an invented criteria. anti-bullying laws are very specific. we need to be concerned with actual risk to our district, not what you think the risk should be.

a circumstance where a district heard native american's opinions on this matter, retired a mascot as consequence (unanimously, no less), then subsequently elected officials who re-instated the mascot some time later (perhaps electing a BOE member who is on record as agreeing that local native americans should go back to the reservation!) would be truly unprecedented. in that hypothetical if you think there is no chance of a suit of some sort or action by the NYSED you aren't thinking clearly on the matter.

so, i ask again (3rd time), if you *knew* that was going to occur, would you still support changing the name back?

[skoorbekim]

That is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

But a picture of the Klan on a Ferris Wheel is relevant?

Do you make decisions of right and wrong based on the opinions of a vocal few?

Not me...

I do however enjoy Ferris Wheels.

[skoorbekim]

abc123,

Third time: yes, I support changing the name back.
Third time: arrest and prosecute those willing to harm my kids over a mascot name.

"perhaps electing a BOE member who is on record as agreeing that local native americans should go back to the reservation!"

Demagoguery on your part. Never happened. Go ahead, read it. Depczynski replied to a poster. She DID NOT suggest that Indians go back to the reservation.
---as always, consider your source.

[WNYresident]

But a picture of the Klan on a Ferris Wheel is relevant?

Do you make decisions of right and wrong based on the opinions of a vocal few?

Not me...

I do however enjoy Ferris Wheels.

Are you purposely acting as you don't see the point I'm making

I said "You know people are going to frame the issue in that manner. Those racist."

I said "You saw the bad press nationally the "redskin" mascot name received on TV. Why would a group of people want to highlight Lancaster that way? "

The photo is to show you how others may perceive the people in Lancaster because others will paint it that way. I can't really explain any simpler than that.

[abc123]

mike - you have said that you support bringing the name back, all the while dismissing any consequences as fear mongering. that does not answer the question posed. if your position is that we should bring back the name regardless of consequences i would say that is a terrible direction for our district. should our ideal BOE make ALL decisions based on ideology without regard to consequences or only this one?

regarding Depczynski, i specifically says she agreed with. i did not say she suggested it in the first place.

[Lee Chowaniec]

Mike, I have a difficult time believing you have no ties to the pro Redskin coalition. You have posted things that indicate your association with them. We have beat the Redskin name to death, so let’s just agree to disagree.

That said, you have been quite open on your political stance and opinions. I appreciate that.

So, its time I share some things with you. As I have stated numerous times I am a non affiliated registered voter and consider myself a centrist; and as such, one seeking good governance with fiscal responsibility to boot. I will not swear blind allegiance to any particular party or ideology. Like you, not too many candidates I vote for in this uber- liberal state or municipality win as I am far being a liberal. So, I am not some bleeding heart liberal finding the Redskin name offense for that reason. It is offensive!

So on to some of your questions and concerns on the school budget:

When was the last time a Lancaster school budget was voted down?

The last time a school district budget was defeated was in May 2005.

I will vote against the Budget - the tax cap rebate check is a scam - anecdotal Vallely stories concern me.

Really Mike? That is what is stopping you from voting for an in essence a no tax increase budget because of your position getting money refunded is a state scam. I cannot disagree with you entirely on that point but that’s the way the game is played. The district did not set the refund plan.

As you report you have two children attending the school district, how are you so willing to jeopardize their educational achievement and social lives with reverting to last year’s tax levy when such action will very well call for cuts in staffing, programs, athletics and increase class sizes? I’m trying to understand your position but I can’t wrap my hands around this take of yours. Help me out here. I always appreciate hearing from both sides.

I do find it funny that the anti-Redskins people are afraid of a referendum...
To me that speaks volumes.

Here we again differ in viewpoint. It was the BOE’S decision to make. That is why they were voted into office, to represent the community. Unlike in the town, I do not know if there is a legal process that allows for a permissive referendum. Did the pro Redskin group file one? For me the referendum will be answered by who wins the two open board seats. If the two pro Redskin candidates win that says it all.

It’s time to move on Mike. This is a battle that cannot be won and outside our town we are perceived as something we are not. You may not be concerned as to how we are perceived by others, I do. The Redskin name is offense and your saying it is not so does not change that.

[skoorbekim]

abc123,

I think we can agree that there are no consequence free environments.

We definitely disagree how to orient our behavior to deal with violent threats.

We also disagree with the importance of the BOE.

I hope they enjoy their April 30 Salvatore's feats.

(((((just for fun - I wonder if Vallely and company have any sporting tickets dated for December 20, 2015)))))

[skoorbekim]

Lee,

Thanks for your considerate statement.

Things like this will never be over, the iconoclast will simply move on to the next target of outrage with the same vigor.

I think parents are infinitely more important and valuable than BOE's and budgets. Just look at districts dominated by two parent households vs. single parent.

I am sick of Common Core. It is a pedagogical fad that will be deservedly mocked a decade from now.

I am sick my kids receiving Global Warming lectures. I suppose the black box theater will be utilized for such things.

Regarding athletic programs: the trend is careening toward club leagues and away from scholastic teams. This is unfortunate and the politically correct statists are accelerating this trend.

Regarding the 2005 budget defeat, is there a link you could provide for me to read about it (other than The Buffalo News)?

[abc123]

but just as with the redskins name, you don't seem to really want to address the consequences of your vote. you are ok with your no vote leading to cuts in staffing and programs that would affect your kids, knowing full well your vote will have zero impact on the state's tax rebate scheme?