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Thread: Municipalities resist bills for road patrols

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    Municipalities resist bills for road patrols

    Towns and villages are preparing an answer for the county executive who wants them to pay for sheriff's road patrols.


    The answer is No.

    "We are not paying for road patrol. It's a double tax on the residents," Elma Supervisor Michael P. Nolan said.

    Erie County Executive Joel A. Giambra sent a letter to 20 towns and villages and the Seneca Nation of Indians telling them to pay their share of $5.9 million for road patrols next year or go without the sheriff's service. Each community's share is based on the number of calls logged in the town over the last two years, plus 5.25 percent for inflation.
    They are to pay one-third next year, two-thirds in 2008 and the full amount in 2009.

    "This is part of our four-year plan that has been adopted by the County Legislature and the Erie County Fiscal Stability Authority," Giambra said.
    The county executive asked for replies by July 1, and if the towns agree to the charge, the sheriff's office will enter into a contract with them.
    "Should you not enter into such a contract, the county will no longer be able to provide patrol service," Giambra's letter states.

    Both sides seem to expect the issue will wind up in court. The communities maintain that the sheriff is constitutionally required to protect them, and the county executive says road patrols are not mandated.

    Towns also say that it is not fair to charge them for their use of patrol services, if other towns are not charged for their use of Central Police Services, the Holding Center, libraries, roads, parks and other services.
    "There are many, many services throughout county government the towns pay for that they don't get," Nolan said. "To single one out, road patrol, is wrong."

    Sheriff Timothy B. Howard, who last week attended a meeting of representatives from the towns, villages and Seneca Nation, agrees.
    "If a family chooses to use a private school instead of public school, it doesn't mean they are exempt from paying for public schools," Howard said.

    He said the larger towns and the City of Buffalo should be concerned that they might be next in line to pay for services they use, such as the Holding Center and the Central Police Services lab.

    Clarence's full bill for the sheriff's patrols would be about $1 million, and Supervisor Kathleen E. Hallock says the town is opposed to paying.
    "We do feel it is the duty of the sheriff to provide safety," she said. "I believe the towns are united in this."
    Not so, says Giambra.

    "There are towns that pay to have that service provided, and we're hearing from those who pay who are saying it's not fair," Giambra said.
    He said towns and villages have been given a windfall in sales tax revenue and want free road patrols but do not want county taxes to increase.
    "These are the same people who want to go heaven but don't want to die," he said.
    http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...21/1003295.asp
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    Member steven's Avatar
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    This is going to get ugly especially if the towns win.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Regarding Sheriff Tim Howard's statement

    Quote Originally Posted by steven
    He said the larger towns and the City of Buffalo should be concerned that they might be next in line to pay for services they use, such as the Holding Center and the Central Police Services lab.
    I think Sheriff Tim Howard makes a point here.

    If the courts side with Giambra (the county), what kind of precedent will it set?

    Is Giambra going to start charging the city and towns for services rendered by sending itemized bills?

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    On the flip side if the courts rules that its the counties responsibility to provide police service what's to keep other towns and cities from just disbanding their police forces and relying on the county?

    In the realm of charging for services his argument makes no sence, the holding center isnt just used by buffalo residents. If someone from Charlotte commits a crime here do we send the bill to the state of Carolina?

    Besides I would guess road maint and plowing cost a lot more than any holding center. The small towns would all buckle if they had to pay for those costs. Its not smart to turn this into a big town vs little town debate.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steven
    On the flip side if the courts rules that its the counties responsibility to provide police service what's to keep other towns and cities from just disbanding their police forces and relying on the county?
    Well nothing I suppose, but larger communities may choose to continue with their own PD's due to their larger sizes and needs.

    In the realm of charging for services his argument makes no sence, the holding center isnt just used by buffalo residents. If someone from Charlotte commits a crime here do we send the bill to the state of Carolina?
    I never bought into that argument previously, but I suppose it can be argued that some towns and cities may have greater use for it than others. Itemized billing for services rendered.

    Besides I would guess road maint and plowing cost a lot more than any holding center. The small towns would all buckle if they had to pay for those costs. Its not smart to turn this into a big town vs little town debate.
    That depends on whether you're basing the cost of maintaining the holding center alone or if you're including heat, electricity, telephone and staff? That can get mighty costly compared to a small crew filling potholes and plowing snow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RaginTaxpayer
    Well nothing I suppose, but larger communities may choose to continue with their own PD's due to their larger sizes and needs.
    If the county had to patrol Buffalo Cheektowaga and Amherst it would grow broke I doubt it could be done

    Quote Originally Posted by RaginTaxpayer
    I never bought into that argument previously, but I suppose it can be argued that some towns and cities may have greater use for it than others. Itemized billing for services rendered..
    Municipalities dont use holding centers criminals do. You cant charge a city because it has a bad resident.

    Quote Originally Posted by RaginTaxpayer
    That depends on whether you're basing the cost of maintaining the holding center alone or if you're including heat, electricity, telephone and staff? That can get mighty costly compared to a small crew filling potholes and plowing snow.
    Its not a small crew filling pot holes its year round maint, snow plowing, repaving etc. The county of Erie owns more roads than some states. I posted its road maint. budget before and its astronomical.

    However I will say this, being pretty well traveled I have to say as far as I can remeber I never saw a setup like in erie county where the sherrife patrols some towns and not others. It was always all or none everywhere I have been before.

    Has anyone ever lived in a county that runs its sherriffe patrols like Erie? How do the downstate countys work?

    I was hoping one of the lawyer or parralegal types would chime in as I am really interested in an expert opinion on how this will fly if it heads to a court room.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    The part that concerns me is the indexing of the proposed cost to the individual towns to the number of service calls historically. If this is indeed the way to go, why isn't Erie county charging each municipality a "per person" charge for central booking, holding center, county jail, etc? Grand Island is expected to pay their share of the holding center, even though they get little use out of it, while Joel complains that Buffalo is being unfairly forced to pay for GI's policing.


    What is needed is a unified county PD. But I won't be alive to see it. Neither will my grandchildren.

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    do you want me to copy and paste my post again?
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    test Test
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by steven
    Has anyone ever lived in a county that runs its sherriffe patrols like Erie? How do the downstate countys work?
    Here's how it worked in my little neck of the woods in downstate Westchester County.

    The cities .. Yonkers, Mt. Vernon, White Plains .. had their own police departments like Buffalo does.

    The Town of Greenburg, which is huge, polices Hartsdale, which is a separate village within the town.

    The Towns of Ardsley, Dobbs Ferry, Elmsford, and Tarrytown have their own police but the Town of Greenburg patrols parts of these towns as well.

    I rarely saw the Westchester County Police unless they were transporting a suspect or prisoner to the County Jail. I suppose they covered the county parks as well.

    The NYS police pretty much stuck to patrols along the thruway and state parks.

    I'll look into this further and let ya know more.

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    and thats the way it works in most places I have been. The Sherriffe patroled only the parks and areas in between towns not the towns themselves
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    The towns downstate *need* their own police force. The high population and high crime rate demands it. This is no other choice.

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    Im not saying just downstate, I mean everywhere else I have been like GA, TX, Alabama etc. The only place I have ever seen sheriffes patrols in towns and citys is in place where the entire county is merged
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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