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Thread: If they want a better life they can earn it.

  1. #1
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    If they want a better life they can earn it.

    LhardyIf they want a better life they can earn it. Try education and moving your butt to better opportunities?
    We all know the econony of WNY is beyond the pits.
    So why not move to where jobs are more plentiful?
    Why not? because they really do not want to earn a better living, they wanted it handed to them.
    So how many other people sort of feel this way. I dont mean lets bus up all the very low income people and ship them out. But in general do you think it's just easier to use the system than to move and work?

  2. #2
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    So how many other people sort of feel this way. I dont mean lets bus up all the very low income people and ship them out. But in general do you think it's just easier to use the system than to move and work?
    I agree with both of you.Just remember this is a Demo Rat state.This means work what is that? Aint I suppose to get a mo fo check sheet man.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    So how many other people sort of feel this way. I dont mean lets bus up all the very low income people and ship them out. But in general do you think it's just easier to use the system than to move and work?
    you talked about this line of crap last year, oh.. and um and the year before as well.

    it only takes a few minutes to search the net and find out that from Human Resources Administration Medical Assistance Program of NYS there are Medicaid Monthly Income Level guidelines.

    still on a search, i found:

    New York state Poverty rate 14.3 Children living in poverty 20.2
    Albany County ----- 10.8 ----- 14.5
    Allegany County ----- 14.8 ----- 20.4
    Bronx County ----- 26.8 ----- 37.0
    Broome County ----- 12.9 ----- 18.4
    Cattaraugus County ----- 13.6 ----- 19.5
    Cayuga County ----- 11.6 ----- 16.4
    Chautauqua County ----- 14.9 ----- 22.1
    Chemung County ----- 13.5 ----- 19.5
    Chenango County ----- 13.5 ----- 20.1
    Clinton County ----- 12.6 ----- 16.4
    Columbia County ----- 9.8 ----- 14.4
    Cortland County ----- 13.4 ----- 17.3
    Delaware County ----- 12.6 ----- 19.2
    Dutchess County ----- 8.0 ----- 9.4
    Erie County ----- 13.0 ----- 18.2
    Essex County ----- 11.5 ----- 16.0
    Franklin County ----- 14.6 ----- 20.1
    Fulton County ----- 12.7 ----- 19.6
    Genesee County ----- 9.1 ----- 12.8
    Greene County ----- 12.9 ----- 17.9
    Hamilton County ----- 9.5 ----- 14.5
    Herkimer County ----- 12.4 ----- 17.8
    Jefferson County ----- 14.5 ----- 20.4
    Kings County ----- 23.3 ----- 33.1
    Lewis County ----- 12.9 ----- 18.7
    Livingston County ----- 10.8 ----- 13.6
    Madison County ----- 10.4 ----- 13.6
    Monroe County ----- 12.7 ----- 17.6
    Montgomery County ----- 13.0 ----- 20.3
    Nassau County ----- 5.9 ----- 7.2
    New York County ----- 18.6 ----- 30.6
    Niagara County ----- 11.4 ----- 16.0
    Oneida County ----- 12.8 ----- 18.3
    Onondaga County ----- 12.1 ----- 15.9
    Ontario County ----- 8.4 ----- 12.0
    Orange County ----- 10.5 ----- 13.5
    Orleans County ----- 12.6 ----- 17.9
    Oswego County ----- 13.0 ----- 18.5
    Otsego County ----- 12.6 ----- 16.3
    Putnam County ----- 4.6 ----- 4.6
    Queens County ----- 15.4 ----- 21.0
    Rensselaer County ----- 9.8 ----- 13.2
    Richmond County ----- 10.1 ----- 13.8
    Rockland County ----- 9.7 ----- 14.3
    St. Lawrence County ----- 15.2 ----- 19.9
    Saratoga County ----- 6.3 ----- 8.0
    Schenectady County ----- 11.6 ----- 16.9
    Schoharie County ----- 11.6 ----- 15.9
    Schuyler County ----- 11.5 ----- 17.4
    Seneca County ----- 11.3 ----- 16.1
    Steuben County ----- 13.6 ----- 20.0
    Suffolk County ----- 7.3 ----- 8.9
    Sullivan County ----- 13.5 ----- 19.2
    Tioga County ----- 9.6 ----- 14.1
    Tompkins County ----- 12.9 ----- 13.5
    Ulster County ----- 10.6 ----- 13.6
    Warren County ----- 10.0 ----- 14.6
    Washington County ----- 11.0 ----- 15.9
    Wayne County ----- 10.1 ----- 14.5
    Westchester County ----- 8.7 ----- 11.1
    Wyoming County ----- 10.0 ----- 13.7
    Yates County ----- 12.8 ----- 20.6

  4. #4
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    What do those numbers have to do with

    But in general do you think it's just easier to use the system than to move and work?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodstock
    you talked about this line of crap last year, oh.. and um and the year before as well.

    it only takes a few minutes to search the net and find out that from Human Resources Administration Medical Assistance Program of NYS there are Medicaid Monthly Income Level guidelines.

    still on a search, i found:

    New York state Poverty rate 14.3 Children living in poverty 20.2
    Albany County ----- 10.8 ----- 14.5
    Allegany County ----- 14.8 ----- 20.4
    Bronx County ----- 26.8 ----- 37.0
    Broome County ----- 12.9 ----- 18.4
    Cattaraugus County ----- 13.6 ----- 19.5
    Cayuga County ----- 11.6 ----- 16.4
    Chautauqua County ----- 14.9 ----- 22.1
    Chemung County ----- 13.5 ----- 19.5
    Chenango County ----- 13.5 ----- 20.1
    Clinton County ----- 12.6 ----- 16.4
    Columbia County ----- 9.8 ----- 14.4
    Cortland County ----- 13.4 ----- 17.3
    Delaware County ----- 12.6 ----- 19.2
    Dutchess County ----- 8.0 ----- 9.4
    Erie County ----- 13.0 ----- 18.2
    Essex County ----- 11.5 ----- 16.0
    Franklin County ----- 14.6 ----- 20.1
    Fulton County ----- 12.7 ----- 19.6
    Genesee County ----- 9.1 ----- 12.8
    Greene County ----- 12.9 ----- 17.9
    Hamilton County ----- 9.5 ----- 14.5
    Herkimer County ----- 12.4 ----- 17.8
    Jefferson County ----- 14.5 ----- 20.4
    Kings County ----- 23.3 ----- 33.1
    Lewis County ----- 12.9 ----- 18.7
    Livingston County ----- 10.8 ----- 13.6
    Madison County ----- 10.4 ----- 13.6
    Monroe County ----- 12.7 ----- 17.6
    Montgomery County ----- 13.0 ----- 20.3
    Nassau County ----- 5.9 ----- 7.2
    New York County ----- 18.6 ----- 30.6
    Niagara County ----- 11.4 ----- 16.0
    Oneida County ----- 12.8 ----- 18.3
    Onondaga County ----- 12.1 ----- 15.9
    Ontario County ----- 8.4 ----- 12.0
    Orange County ----- 10.5 ----- 13.5
    Orleans County ----- 12.6 ----- 17.9
    Oswego County ----- 13.0 ----- 18.5
    Otsego County ----- 12.6 ----- 16.3
    Putnam County ----- 4.6 ----- 4.6
    Queens County ----- 15.4 ----- 21.0
    Rensselaer County ----- 9.8 ----- 13.2
    Richmond County ----- 10.1 ----- 13.8
    Rockland County ----- 9.7 ----- 14.3
    St. Lawrence County ----- 15.2 ----- 19.9
    Saratoga County ----- 6.3 ----- 8.0
    Schenectady County ----- 11.6 ----- 16.9
    Schoharie County ----- 11.6 ----- 15.9
    Schuyler County ----- 11.5 ----- 17.4
    Seneca County ----- 11.3 ----- 16.1
    Steuben County ----- 13.6 ----- 20.0
    Suffolk County ----- 7.3 ----- 8.9
    Sullivan County ----- 13.5 ----- 19.2
    Tioga County ----- 9.6 ----- 14.1
    Tompkins County ----- 12.9 ----- 13.5
    Ulster County ----- 10.6 ----- 13.6
    Warren County ----- 10.0 ----- 14.6
    Washington County ----- 11.0 ----- 15.9
    Wayne County ----- 10.1 ----- 14.5
    Westchester County ----- 8.7 ----- 11.1
    Wyoming County ----- 10.0 ----- 13.7
    Yates County ----- 12.8 ----- 20.6

    Pretty hard to just pick up and move to a state where jobs are more plentiful when you're a child in poverty. Same can be said of the poor in general. How do you get bus fare? How do you get first, last rent, money for utilities, money for transportation?

    Moving is never cheap. And if you have no skills, the jobs you're relocating for aren't going to pay enough to offset the costs. Unless you've got family elsewhere will to take you in while you get your act together, it's really hard to just pick up and leave.

  6. #6
    Member speaker's Avatar
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    There's a good article on this subject, the working poor, in Time this week.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker
    There's a good article on this subject, the working poor, in Time this week.
    Thanks for the heads up. I read the article and was astounded. Imagine: A janitor who earns a living wage and gets benefits -- all w/o bankrupting her employer!

    Good thing too. I read in Business Week that janitors are among the five fastest growing jobs in the nation.

    Here is the link:

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...5378-1,00.html

  8. #8
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by atotaltotalfan2001
    Pretty hard to just pick up and move to a state where jobs are more plentiful when you're a child in poverty. Same can be said of the poor in general. How do you get bus fare? How do you get first, last rent, money for utilities, money for transportation?

    Moving is never cheap. And if you have no skills, the jobs you're relocating for aren't going to pay enough to offset the costs. Unless you've got family elsewhere will to take you in while you get your act together, it's really hard to just pick up and leave.
    I totally agree with you. My point was what do those statistics have to do with

    " But in general do you think it's just easier to use the system than to move and work?"

    I never said there were no children in poverty or not.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    I totally agree with you. My point was what do those statistics have to do with

    " But in general do you think it's just easier to use the system than to move and work?"

    I never said there were no children in poverty or not.
    Okay.


    For my part, the statistics were a good reminder that most of the people living in poverty are kids who can't do much about it.

    But I guess you could say, in a way, that it is easier for poor adults to "use the system" instead of moving to find work for the basic reason that they don't have the money to do so.

    I'm not saying you are doing this, but people who rail against the poor tend to brand the poor as lazy losers, and assume that if the poor really wanted to work they'd go to where the jobs are.

    And that just isn't realistic, IMO.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by atotaltotalfan2001
    Okay.


    For my part, the statistics were a good reminder that most of the people living in poverty are kids who can't do much about it.

    But I guess you could say, in a way, that it is easier for poor adults to "use the system" instead of moving to find work for the basic reason that they don't have the money to do so.

    I'm not saying you are doing this, but people who rail against the poor tend to brand the poor as lazy losers, and assume that if the poor really wanted to work they'd go to where the jobs are.

    And that just isn't realistic, IMO.
    Your opinion is totally wrong.
    From what I have read, none of you where ever dirt poor or forced to lived in the street. Underline FORCED; not choose too live in the street. For there are people who prefer living in the street. Unbelievably it is true.
    If you had, you would know there are ways to do anything you want when you are poor. You can get bus fare to any destination you choose at a reasonable price.
    You can get food and shelter if you know where to look. When your poor, you know where to look.
    You know where to get food and where to cash your checks. You also know how to get checks.
    Education and job services are free.
    Sacrifice is needed if you want to get ahead.
    Two key words sacrifice and want. Without those, no person can go anywhere. If you choose to stay poor and in your circumstance, it is YOUR CHOICE. Not the economy nor location.

    Many of the statements expressed here have been defeatist, towards the advancement of the poor. Instead of telling them to pick themselves up and take ADVANTAGE of what is out there! I read "They can't do it because.........!" What defeatist statements!
    Not even allowing the poor the decency to get out of the gate to try!

    How in the hell does anyone run a business with that attitude?
    You do not, nor will you run your life with such attitude.

    Now we have a conditioned response from the “Working poor” given to them by a government of entitlement.
    Why try when you can wait for the coming handout.
    Hello New Orleans!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHardy
    Your opinion is totally wrong.
    From what I have read, none of you where ever dirt poor or forced to lived in the street.
    I am amazed you know everyone so well, peeking in our windows are ya now?..... or are you just clairvoyant?
    “if you’ve got health insurance, you can keep your doctor, you can keep your plan. Nobody is talking about taking that away from you.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by atotaltotalfan2001
    Pretty hard to just pick up and move to a state where jobs are more plentiful when you're a child in poverty. Same can be said of the poor in general. How do you get bus fare? How do you get first, last rent, money for utilities, money for transportation?

    Moving is never cheap. And if you have no skills, the jobs you're relocating for aren't going to pay enough to offset the costs. Unless you've got family elsewhere will to take you in while you get your act together, it's really hard to just pick up and leave.
    I've rewritten what I was going to post to this comment three times. More sarcastic, less sarcastic, really blasting.

    Ok, here goes.

    THIS IS THE SOB SISTER CRAP THAT HAS TURNED SEVERAL GENERATIONS OF INNER CITY RESIDENTS INTO PERPETUAL WELFARE CLIENTS AND DRUG DEALERS AND RUINED MOST OF THE CITIES OF THE NORTHEAST AND MIDWEST.

    Let's take TTF's dismal scenario and make it even worse.

    Let's say these uneducated, poor people don't even speak English.

    Let's even say they have to move not just to another state, but to another country.

    Wait, you've probably figured it out: TTF and I have just described illegal immigrants.

    They are poor, uneducated and can't speak English very well.

    And they are taking the Southwest by storm, hard-working and ambitious. Willing to take any job to make ends meet.

    Here's the biggest scam: TTF knows this. She's from SoCal. She admitted to hiring several for work around her house.

    Yet she repeats the liberal, victim crapola line about "our poor couldn't possibly figure out how to fend for themselves."

    Puhh-leeeze.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by LHardy
    Your opinion is totally wrong.
    From what I have read, none of you where ever dirt poor or forced to lived in the street. Underline FORCED; not choose too live in the street. For there are people who prefer living in the street. Unbelievably it is true.
    If you had, you would know there are ways to do anything you want when you are poor. You can get bus fare to any destination you choose at a reasonable price.
    You can get food and shelter if you know where to look. When your poor, you know where to look.
    You know where to get food and where to cash your checks. You also know how to get checks.
    Education and job services are free.
    Sacrifice is needed if you want to get ahead.
    Two key words sacrifice and want. Without those, no person can go anywhere. If you choose to stay poor and in your circumstance, it is YOUR CHOICE. Not the economy nor location.

    Many of the statements expressed here have been defeatist, towards the advancement of the poor. Instead of telling them to pick themselves up and take ADVANTAGE of what is out there! I read "They can't do it because.........!" What defeatist statements!
    Not even allowing the poor the decency to get out of the gate to try!

    How in the hell does anyone run a business with that attitude?
    You do not, nor will you run your life with such attitude.

    Now we have a conditioned response from the “Working poor” given to them by a government of entitlement.
    Why try when you can wait for the coming handout.
    Hello New Orleans!
    LHardy, I agree. The people who live on the streets aren't forced to do so. From what I've seen and read over the decades, there are almost always mental health issues with people who live on the streets, or the homeless.

    My comments were aimed at the idea that if you're poor and really want to work or get better jobs, you should relocate to somewhere with more jobs.

    How a poor family affords that is beyond me. There are more jobs in Nevada than WNY, but if you're poor, how do you go about making that move? And why bother, if you don't have the skills that will help you land a decent paying job?

    That goes for the working poor as well.

  14. #14
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    So what if NYS started the "Cashout" system. One full year of assistance all at once.

    Only stipulation is: You have to move to another state.

    Would all the Democratic liberals fight it? They would be out of work because there would be no one to administer social programs to.

    Once you accept your "cashout" you can never ever be on NYS assistance in any form ever again. So yes you can move back but you better go live with family. I'm talking like a $20k type buyout.

    And no I don't mean I'm carting the low income out of the state forcefully. We are giving anyone who qualifies for assistance a chance for a better future and thats what you want anyone to have? Right? A better future.

    Shouldn't people be given the chance if they want it?

    Look at the money spend on HUD to help the poor with housing. Lets say they spent 50,000,000 over the last 10 years. That would be 2500 people on thier way to riches.

    What did hud really get us over the last 10 years? You do see my point?

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    So what if NYS started the "Cashout" system. One full year of assistance all at once.

    Only stipulation is: You have to move to another state.

    Would all the Democratic liberals fight it? They would be out of work because there would be no one to administer social programs to.

    Once you accept your "cashout" you can never ever be on NYS assistance in any form ever again. So yes you can move back but you better go live with family. I'm talking like a $20k type buyout.

    And no I don't mean I'm carting the low income out of the state forcefully. We are giving anyone who qualifies for assistance a chance for a better future and thats what you want anyone to have? Right? A better future.

    Shouldn't people be given the chance if they want it?

    Look at the money spend on HUD to help the poor with housing. Lets say they spent 50,000,000 over the last 10 years. That would be 2500 people on thier way to riches.

    What did hud really get us over the last 10 years? You do see my point?
    That's an interesting idea. But would we be foisting our problem on a different state? I mean, if we're talking about people w/o skills, they would move on to a different state but only to the lowest-wage jobs. They'd still be poor.
    Maybe some kind of stipulation requiring they enter job training if they want the one-time only cash out.....haven't thought that through, so forgive me if it is a half baked notion at this point.

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