Challenge

[Batman]

Every thread on Speakup concerning FreeBuffalo seems to be hijacked by a few individuals who seem to be intent on sabotaging any rational discussion.

Well, here's your chance to air your grievances.

Here's the challenge:
Present your philosophy and tell us why we're wrong
It must be your own words
No personal sniping

Let the games begin..........

[Ragin]

We're not an organization trying to gather support. We're the voting public.

Just like any candidate, the challenge rests on you to convince us you're the group we should be supporting.

September's coming fast and you're running out of time.

This is not a game, so give it your best shot.

One last thing ... no personal sniping.

[Linda_D]

The problem with freebuffalo is that it's too radical and too ideological, and presents no viable plan to get from point A (today) to point B (freebuffalo nirvana) without laying waste to all political, economic, and social institutions. As I've said before, it's the flip side of Communism.

[Stevenco]

You can't hijack a thread. That's completely ridiculous. Threads are not airliners, nor are they even browsers for that matter.
Here's some advice : If ever you think your thread has been hijacked, turn off your pc and go outside. If I ever complain, that my thread has been hijacked just disable my account.

[Jim Ostrowski]

"Present your philosophy"

Nice try Batman. I've issued a similar challenge three or four times and never got a response.

It's easy to criticize; hard to construct.

[tinsnips]

"Present your philosophy"

Nice try Batman. I've issued a similar challenge three or four times and never got a response.

It's easy to criticize; hard to construct.

Who would know that better than you, Mr. O? Your singularly defining characteristic is that you hate anyone and everyone who has ever held public office (exceptions: your father -- whom I'm sure was chosen/elected on merit and not by any nefarious political entity; another exception, the spectacularly ineffective Ms. Locklear, whom I'm certain you will break with sometime soon simply because she is an incumbent, and as we all know from you, all incumbents are bad). If you're not elected but instead work for an elected official, in your mind, you're also evil, because you're part of a corrupt system that rewards the very few lazy slugs who simply make government work at the expense of the many (although you had family members yourself who were patronage employees -- another rarely discussed fact).

It does make one wonder if someone peed in your Cheerios as a child.

[Jim Ostrowski]

"Every thread on Speakup concerning FreeBuffalo seems to be hijacked by a few individuals who seem to be intent on sabotaging any rational discussion.

"Well, here's your chance to air your grievances.

"Here's the challenge:
Present your philosophy and tell us why we're wrong
It must be your own words
No personal sniping"

The point has been made yet again.

This forum has become a site where anonymous members of the political class shoot down anyone who proposes an end to their gravy train ride.

[concernedwnyer]

Every thread on Speakup concerning FreeBuffalo seems to be hijacked by a few individuals who seem to be intent on sabotaging any rational discussion.

Well, here's your chance to air your grievances.

Here's the challenge:
Present your philosophy and tell us why we're wrong

I am not sure what you mean… Are you referring to what Free Buffalo is doing wrong???
Am not so sure there is a “wrong” associated with Free Buffalo. I think there is a lot of questions as to what in the hell it that Free Buffalo is trying to accomplish and with that brings some criticism….

I have attended meetings at the Free Buffalo Office; I have attended one or two Free Buffalo Events… No, make that one event…..Central Terminal… I just do not get the concept I mean look at this way.

We know there is a problem with Government in this area. The local Government knows there is a problem with how things are run in this area. Free Buffalo Knows there is a problem with local government in this area too. So everybody knows there is a problem and everyone knows that everybody else knows there is a problem so in affect there really is not to many people who do not know there is a problem with local government in this area though sometimes the people who do know there is a problem pretend that the other people do not know there is a problem when in fact everybody does know there is a problem. So we all pretend there is a slight problem and we continue to do things the way we always have done things in the past even though the problem is growing.

We really do not need some freaking group to tell us about the problem. We know what the problem is. We need affirmative action to nail the problem on the head and make it go away. No holds bar about this. Tough luck… Sucks to be you…. Get out of arms way because we coming down the road without stopping for no one. The sewer lines are being cleaned – no more crap-o-la in these WNY area lines.

For example Johnny brown sells chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway.
In doing so Johnny Brown is creating a huge negative impact on all Popsicle sales in the area. For fair competition of Popsicle sales local government has created safe guards to ensure proper balance of all Popsicle sales throughout the area though the wording of such safeguards is somewhat convoluted and often miss interpreted. The local government knows that Johnny Brown should not be selling chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. Johnny Brown also knows it is wrong to be selling the chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. The people also know that it is wrong for Johnny Brown to be selling Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. So everybody knows the issue of chocolate Popsicles being sold at the corner of 5th and Broadway. Do we really need someone to come out with “reports” on what is wrong with selling chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway? Hell no!!!! We know the consequences of selling chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. Mr. Fun Vanilla man down the street was forced to close his vanilla Popsicle ice cream plant of fifty years being in business because of Johnny Brown selling chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. Even with the popularity of Vanilla ice cream it was no match against Johnny Brown. It was a sad day that Tuesday afternoon as I recall. Even the birds stopped chirping for a period of time. No more vanilla Popsicle ice cream. People even asked Johnny Brown to pick up the Vanilla Popsicle line but staying true to his last name and chocolate colored Popsicles Johnny Brown refused.

We really do not need someone to tell us about how bad Johnny Brown is in selling chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. Everyone knows it is bad that Johnny Brown is selling chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway.

What we do need is to freaking come down on Johnny Brown and to reform him by stopping the sale of chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway. Someone needs to go over to Johnny Browns house and take away his chocolate Popsicles, flatten his vehicle tires, stop the possible sales of chocolate Popsicles to Johnny Brown, take away his business license, and put Johnny Brown in a cement casket and dump him into lake Erie! We need that type of group. Who says the mafia is bad??? Certainly not me.

We do not need a Free Buffalo telling us that there is something wrong when we damn well know there is something wrong. By the way Johnny Brown no longer sells chocolate Popsicles at the corner of 5th and Broadway or any other location in this area.. [applaud… applaud] Is there anyone who knows how to get rid of boat trailer tire tracks at a boat launch???

It must be your own words
No personal sniping

I may have treaded the boarder line a bit but you did ask for an opinion. Oh well...

Let the games begin..........

I think the game has ended.. I really do. It is becoming pointless and now it is time for serious reform with action not just committees piled upon committees that suck up more taxpayer money and produce no results. Ned Reagan come to mind… 6.4 thousand dollar expense account bill and what the hell did we get for it. Oh, we took Ned Reagan out to Adams Mark hotel for a grand dinner…. WTF!.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

In the end, Free Buffalo, as I understand it from reading this and its own site, is too dogmatic for me and certainly too libertarian.

I believe in the rightness of unions as the sole way to protect the average working person. They are the only way of truly checking the abuse of power that employers have. I do feel unions in NY have grown too strong, thereby disturbing the necessary checks and balances. That needs to be addressed. But that doesn't mean unions are a bad thing.

I support a minimum wage. You don't -- but no matter what I say about why I support a minimum wage -- for humanitarian reasons -- you will argue with me like an idealistic college student about the wonders of the free marketplace.

Some of your ideas I like, although they are by no means NEW ideas. Public referendums come to mind. A modified BOS. And the overall concept of shrinking government as well.

But what I agree with is outweighed by what I don't agree with. And, if I may add, the elitist attitude on FB's part is the final nail in the coffin. In fact, I'd say it weighs heavily against you. I don't need anyone else talking down to me. I already get that from the current political system.

[Batman]

Some good responses so far. Keep them coming. When we get a few more I'll comment on them. I invite everybody to contribute. If you have have disagreements and air them respectfully I won't shoot them down. I ask others to abide by the same.

[mikewrona]

You know my philosophy. Like you I won't be repeating it.

[therising]

My main problem with Free Buffalo is the arrogance of its leader.

I know you're looking to hear about issues, but you said:

Present your philosophy and tell us why we're wrong
It must be your own words

As far as JO's intentions go, I give him the benefit of the doubt. Sure, there's a skeptic in me that thinks maybe this is just a way to sell books and get some free press for a man with a large ego, but I'm still willing to believe that the overall intentions are good. Without a doubt, the intentions of the individual members are good.

So, why make an issue about someone's personality?

I can't stomach the thought of belonging to a group that is led by a man with a "I'm always right, you're usually wrong" mentality. I wouldn't care if the primary intent of your group was to feed orphans, the arrogance thing would make me think twice.

Whether FB likes to think of it this way or not, the truth is that you are selling a product. The product is FB memberships. You obviously need to raise funds in order to be productive. No funds = No Free Buffalo.

One of the cardinal rules in sales is that, all things being equal, people buy from people that they like. You could have the greatest product/organization in the world, but if no one likes you, they're not buying.

Do yourselves a favor and hire a PR person. Maybe, next year the Taste of Freedom will be in the black.

You asked for answers and I gave it to you. Please take it to heart. I'm confident I'm not the only one that feels this way.

[Jim Ostrowski]

The purpose of Free Buffalo is to propose specific changes in government and to help change the mindset of the public so those solutions will be accepted.

Free Buffalo arose out of my book which is explains what is wrong with Buffalo. People said, okay, what do we do now? So I answered their question with the Free Buffalo plan from which we have never wavered.

In 15 policy studies, we have recommended specific policy changes, or, in a few cases, tried to change the mindset.

The pitfall to avoid is reformism: the notion that small procedural changes or putting "better people" in office will make any difference. Been there; done that. As I pointed out at the forum on the charter, reform efforts have been going on since the 1930s that we know of. "Better people" were put into office in 1977 and 1999. Nothing changed.

Not mere reform, but major structural change is needed.

Let me say this about the libertarian thing.

I'm a libertarian; Free Buffalo is a populist organization inspired by libertarian ideas. Libertarian populism if you will.

The decline of Buffalo was a joint project of liberal Democrats and conservative Republicans. Those idea banks are what led us to the present sad state. See my book for a more detailed explanation of that point.

[Batman]

the challenge rests on you to convince us you're the group we should be supporting
True. Keep in mind you don't have to support everything.

The problem with freebuffalo is that it's too radical and too ideological, and presents no viable plan to get from point A (today) to point B (freebuffalo nirvana) without laying waste to all political, economic, and social institutions
It is radical in the current political climate and is based on an ideology. I think the system is broken and needs radical change.

You can't hijack a thread
Maybe derail a coherent discussion would be a better description

I think there is a lot of questions as to what in the hell it that Free Buffalo is trying to accomplish and with that brings some criticism….
OK. That's what I'm trying to address.

We do not need a Free Buffalo telling us that there is something wrong when we damn well know there is something wrong
I run into tons of people who don't know.

We need affirmative action to nail the problem on the head and make it go away. No holds bar about this. Tough luck… Sucks to be you…. Get out of arms way because we coming down the road without stopping for no one. The sewer lines are being cleaned – no more crap-o-la in these WNY area lines.
That's what we've been attempting. We need more people. You don't have to agree with everything either.

I do feel unions in NY have grown too strong, thereby disturbing the necessary checks and balances. That needs to be addressed. But that doesn't mean unions are a bad thing.
I agree.

I support a minimum wage. You don't -- but no matter what I say about why I support a minimum wage -- for humanitarian reasons -- you will argue with me like an idealistic college student about the wonders of the free marketplace
I disagree but that could be the subject of another thread.

And, if I may add, the elitist attitude on FB's part is the final nail in the coffin. In fact, I'd say it weighs heavily against you. I don't need anyone else talking down to me. I already get that from the current political system.
If it comes across that way I don't think it's intentional. I certainly don't consider myself better or smarter than anyone else and haven't received that impression from anyone connected to FB.

You know my philosophy
Yes, socialism. I disagree totally. That said, you are entitled to express your own beliefs and opinions.

I can't stomach the thought of belonging to a group that is led by a man with a "I'm always right, you're usually wrong" mentality
I agree totally. I'm also a member of FB and have always been allowed to express my opinion.

Not mere reform, but major structural change is needed
My contention has always been that the system is broke.

[Jim Ostrowski]

TheRising already said on another thread that he's a liberal. When those who support Free Buffalo's plan leave because of my alleged arrogance, I'll have a problem.

Only one person to my knowledge who was an active supporter has left and that's because I didn't get back to her with some paperwork fast enough.

She's welcome back anytime.