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Thread: Outsourcing - GOOD for America?

  1. #1
    Member ReformWNY's Avatar
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    Question Outsourcing - GOOD for America?

    Bear with me here, as I've been reading a lot on economics and have begun to come up with some odd theories and hijack some other people's rational.

    In a vacuum, Outsourcing should be GOOD for America.

    No - really. It should.

    We SHOULD be outsourcing our ****work to countries that need the employment and jobs. India SHOULD be answering our phones for us. We SHOULD be dumping our grunt work off to other nations that need the work and appreciate our commerce so that we can ESCALATE OUR WORKFORCE TO DO BETTER THINGS.

    Again, in a vacuum, realize that by dumping our grunt work, the USA can concentrate on engineering, development, quality control, product invention, and what it has always been GOOD at. The entry level job will not be the schlep at the helpdesk, but the guy doing systems design. Outsourcing should be used as a stepping stone to elevate our class - and to make us more able to achieve greater things - as the US has always done.

    The problem? WE GOT LAZY! We are fighting to keep those crappy jobs in the US instead of working hard to do better work,. put out a better product... .or aspire for greatness. What does the rich and successful businessowner do? Does he take 2 days off from work to paint his kitchen... or does he say "Hey, it would cost me $350 to have someone come and paint my kitchen - and I make that money in about 4 hours of work. I'm better off hiring out (outsourcing) the work to someone else. This way they get what they'rw worth, I get what I'm worth, the work gets done -and we all end up ahead of the game.

    Instead we have people competing for and crying about losing minimum wage jobs. We should be competing for the REAL work... Not the bottom of the barrel.

    While I realize that there is a need for entry level work, etc. in all cases - why aren't we aspiring for greatness anymore? When did everyone get so lazy? I would have to think that our forefathers and grandparents would be ashamed to see us competing for and crying about low end bottom of the barrel work - when we have everything we need to continue on the cusp of civilization.

    In any event - We're collectively too lazy to appreciate having someone else pick up our mediocre tasks while we can do bigger, better work... so it'll never work this way.
    Thoughts?
    "I know the man. he is not using a theasuarus."

  2. #2
    Member ForestBird's Avatar
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    A great many people are simply not intelligent enough for more than so-called "grunt work", and I am not trying to insult them. Every nation needs jobs for every level of worker.

    Mass production, mass distribution, mass consumption. We're getting to the point where there's hardly any "production" left in the USA, and our economy cannot continue forever with 2 out of 3 elements. We even import ridiculous things like SOAP, now. As long as the super-wealthy control the government (which will be forever) we aren't going to get the tariff laws we need.

    Free trade = disaster.

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    Not everyone in a particular country shares the same level of ambition.

    Those currently enjoying the fruits of their higher education you should thank their lucky stars such is the case.

    Imagine a country where everyone wanted to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, banker, engineer etc...and took strides toward that end by pursuing and attaining higher education. Eventually what you'd end up with is allot of out of work doctors, lawyers, accountants, bankers, engineers.

    There are a finite number of higher paying jobs at a given time.

    Also, with a glut of engineer's for instance, potential employers would use that as leverage when negotiating salary, "yeah, it's nice that you've got your masters, and I understand you thought you'd start a certain salary after you graduated, but I've got a waiting room full of masters holding engineer's, I'm offering you X amount, take it or leave it".

  4. #4
    Member LaNdReW's Avatar
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    Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by NoCtUrNaL
    Not everyone in a particular country shares the same level of ambition.

    Those currently enjoying the fruits of their higher education you should thank their lucky stars such is the case.

    Imagine a country where everyone wanted to be a doctor, lawyer, accountant, banker, engineer etc...and took strides toward that end by pursuing and attaining higher education. Eventually what you'd end up with is allot of out of work doctors, lawyers, accountants, bankers, engineers.

    There are a finite number of higher paying jobs at a given time.

    Also, with a glut of engineer's for instance, potential employers would use that as leverage when negotiating salary, "yeah, it's nice that you've got your masters, and I understand you thought you'd start a certain salary after you graduated, but I've got a waiting room full of masters holding engineer's, I'm offering you X amount, take it or leave it".

    The problem is our "corporate leaders" artificially report/predict "shortages" in particular occupations. They use this to push for non-resident visas....

    Now, we see it on the low end of the spectrum with "jobs, Americans are not willing to do".

    Both show how corporations and the political donor class manipulate supply and demand for labor.

    This tweaks me to no end.
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis (1935)

  5. #5
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformWNY
    In a vacuum, Outsourcing should be GOOD for America.
    No - really. It should.
    We SHOULD be outsourcing our ****work to countries that need the employment and jobs. India SHOULD be answering our phones for us. We SHOULD be dumping our grunt work off to other nations that need the work and appreciate our commerce so that we can ESCALATE OUR WORKFORCE TO DO BETTER THINGS.
    The main problem with this reasoning is ... what you wrote is not what's happening. What you wrote is what happened 10 years ago.

    Today - we are sending our engineering jobs, analytical jobs, research jobs, accounting jobs, etc. to India. We are even starting to send some executive decision-making jobs to India as well.

    They are NOT mundane grunt work type jobs. They are highly skilled professions.

  6. #6
    Member Edisonic's Avatar
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    I have a friend in Brooklyn, who has a Master's degree - he drives a garbage truck, because that's what he could find & they can't outsource it, according to him.

    I have a friend in Buffalo, who has 2 Master's degrees. He drives a newspaper truck, because that's what he could find & they cannot outsource it, according to him.

    Coincidence? hmm.

  7. #7
    Member ReformWNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles
    The main problem with this reasoning is ... what you wrote is not what's happening. What you wrote is what happened 10 years ago.

    Today - we are sending our engineering jobs, analytical jobs, research jobs, accounting jobs, etc. to India. We are even starting to send some executive decision-making jobs to India as well.

    They are NOT mundane grunt work type jobs. They are highly skilled professions.
    Absolutely correct.
    I'm throwing the conversation out there for conversations sake.
    I agree with you on this 400.
    "I know the man. he is not using a theasuarus."

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    It boils down to this---

    The American executive class, people who typically make 400x more than the bottom-level worker, are a bunch of cheap bastards who don't want to pay an American wage.

    They are selling us out. How much more anti-American can one get?

  9. #9
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    Outsourcing lowers the costs of many goods and services, thereby increasing the standard of living of Americans. Also, a Dartmouth study shows that companies that outsource jobs also create domestic jobs at a greater rate than companies that don't outsource. It allows a company to allocate its resources more effectively which in turn allows the company to grow and employ more people here.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    Outsourcing lowers the costs of many goods and services, thereby increasing the standard of living of Americans. Also, a Dartmouth study shows that companies that outsource jobs also create domestic jobs at a greater rate than companies that don't outsource. It allows a company to allocate its resources more effectively which in turn allows the company to grow and employ more people here.
    Some outsourcing is good. Let's say company X has a high volume of customer service calls. They outsource their CS department to a call-center company, company Y that takes on hundreds of corporate clients. Company Y can perform this service much more cheaply and efficiently than X because this is what they specialize in. This is a normal part of doing prudent business in this day and age.

    However, it gets pretty shady when nations with a good standard of living take advantage of countries that lack decent labor and environmental laws. I like to call that exploitation, or "cheating" if we're going to pad it a bit. When you don't like the rules, go somewhere where the rules are much easier. It's like when playing a video game and the "moderate" difficulty is too much a pain in the arse, just set it to "beginner" mode and beat the game in two hours.

  11. #11
    Member DelawareDistrict's Avatar
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    More than ever we are in a global economy. The conditions will only improve when the people in the other countries start to raise their standard of living. As they earn more and realize the possibilities associated with a vibrant economy, they will pressure their respective industries to improve conditions.
    The path is clear
    Though no eyes can see
    The course laid down long before.
    And so with gods and men
    The sheep remain inside their pen,
    Though many times they've seen the way to leave.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by DelawareDistrict
    More than ever we are in a global economy. The conditions will only improve when the people in the other countries start to raise their standard of living. As they earn more and realize the possibilities associated with a vibrant economy, they will pressure their respective industries to improve conditions.
    Hah, looks good on paper but never seems to reallly pan out in reality.

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