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Thread: Still waiting ...

  1. #1
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Still waiting ...

    Okay, remember back in March when it was announced that a finalized contract with Bass Pro was "imminent"??? Well, it's now three months later, and we're still waiting ...

    Here's a bit on Bass Pro, Cabela's, and other retailers requiring public monies to bring their stores to any area ...

    This quote is specifically about Buffalo's wooing of Bass Pro, but it's part of a much longer article on this general topic.

    I've high-lighted a few numbers that have changed (as pointed out by Jim O) since this project was first proposed. The $57 million, of course, is in addition to another $66 million in infrastructure that would be necessary to accommodate the Bait Scam, so this would be $101 million in public monies invested for a max $8 million payroll. (Of course, costs have probably increased since then, so it will undoubtedly be significantly more in public money!)

    Clearly, some communities expect major returns. Buffalo, N.Y., envisions Bass Pro as the anchor of a waterfront remake that could eventually cost some $1 billion. The proposed project would contain loft housing, a museum, parking decks and extensive retail, such as the Harborfront Market, a boardwalk of shops and restaurants akin to Boston’s Faneuil Hall Marketplace. The plan is for Bass Pro to take over the vacant Buffalo Memorial Auditorium by 2008, says Charles F. Rosenow, president of the state entity coordinating the project. When the idea was announced nearly three years ago (it is still under study) the cost of Bass Pro’s portion was estimated at $57 million. "Of that amount, the city, county and state have put up $35 million to retrofit the building," Rosenow said. "Bass Pro would spend $22 million on the store."

    Free Buffalo and other local critic groups have lambasted the deal as corporate welfare, but defenders point to the fact that downtown Buffalo is desperate for jobs. "The city has given over all of its downtown retail to the suburbs," Rosenow said. "This would re-establish a retail base." Further, supporters cite the success of existing projects anchored by destination retail. Kansas City courted Cabela’s in 2003 to add full-time retail to the area around Kansas Speedway. Other developments followed, including restaurants and hotels, a 750,000-square-foot Nebraska Furniture Mart, a Great Wolf Lodge indoor water park and resort, a baseball park and The Legends at Village West, an 805,000-square-foot open-air lifestyle center by RED Development. "Cabela’s had a tremendous impact in Kansas City," said Edward T. Krusa, a consultant in Hammond, Ind., who took a fact-finding trip to Kansas City on behalf of Hammond officials currently in negotiations with Cabela’s.

    Bass Pro now operates 33 stores in 21 states and Canada, with about 10 more slated to open by the end of the year. Cabela’s operates 14 stores, with 13 in the pipeline and others in negotiation. "We believe there is potential for 50 more of our 150,000-square-foot-type stores or larger," Callahan said. "We also believe there are literally hundreds of opportunities for a smaller format."

    Critics complain that such aggressive rollouts will shrink the trade areas and eventually make the stores more humdrum than special. Retail is notoriously fast-paced, they say, so could Bass Pro suddenly acquire Cabela’s, for instance, and start closing stores? "There is no guarantee of longevity," said Sen. Redfield.
    Bass Pro, Cabelas, et al This article is long, but interesting, and puts the issue in national, not just local, terms.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  2. #2
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    I found this thread I wrote in June about the Bass Pro deal being "imminent" back in March. It's now October, the proposal has changed radically (as in demolish the Aud), and still no deal in sight.

    I think it's time to give up on this bait shop scam. This kind of store isn't appropriate for downtown anyways, so just give up on it. Take down the Aud and make the land available for other development that is more in keeping with downtown style and ambiance.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Member granpabob's Avatar
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    Navajoes might want to build a casino too they can have the hole that is left when the aud is gone. maybe the Crees or cherokee
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

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    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The $57 million, of course, is in addition to another $66 million in infrastructure that would be necessary to accommodate the Bait Scam, so this would be $101 million in public monies invested for a max $8 million payroll.
    That is inaccurate.

    The infrastructure costs were part of the total, not in addition to it:
    $31 million - Fed Highway / Fed Transit (for infrastructure)
    $21 million - NYS
    $14 million - Buffalo / Erie county

    Total = $66 million, almost half of which is infrastructure improvements to the area.

    The $57 million was additional investment from Bass Pro itself, not public money.

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    I hear the announcement is imminent.

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    Member concernedwnyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    I found this thread I wrote in June about the Bass Pro deal being "imminent" back in March. It's now October, the proposal has changed radically (as in demolish the Aud), and still no deal in sight.

    I think it's time to give up on this bait shop scam.

    I would not call it a scam but rather a stall for Buffalo to pay for them to come here with a free building and or land.
    We do not need the fish store that badly.


    This kind of store isn't appropriate for downtown anyways, so just give up on it. Take down the Aud and make the land available for other development that is more in keeping with downtown style and ambiance.

    Hope Bass Pro has a sale on Popsicles in the winter time because I certainly would not visit the fish store in the winter months downtown……..

  7. #7
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles
    That is inaccurate.

    The infrastructure costs were part of the total, not in addition to it:
    $31 million - Fed Highway / Fed Transit (for infrastructure)
    $21 million - NYS
    $14 million - Buffalo / Erie county

    Total = $66 million, almost half of which is infrastructure improvements to the area.

    The $57 million was additional investment from Bass Pro itself, not public money.
    I quoted the article. Rosenow, a Buffalo official, said BassPro was to come up with $22 million and the local governments with $35 million to retrofit the building. There's no mention of the infrastructure costs. Maybe that's included in the "retrofit" but I bet it isn't. That's why I called this a "scam" -- the figures have always been murky.

    Moreover, I believe one part of the "infrastructure improvements" was supposed to be an "intermodal station/terminal/depot" and that was changed to just a parking garage. Another part of these "improvements" was to reconfigure one of the I-190 ramps to please Bass Pro.

    Declare this deal DOA and move on.

    If BassPro is truly interested in building in the Buffalo area, how about the area around South Ogden Street? It's got easy access to I190 and I90, there are lots of old warehouse space that can be torn down and a new build big box built right there. I think it would be perfect.

    Another area that might work is some of the old industrial area between Elmwood and Military north of Hertel.

    What about some of the old factory sites along Tonawanda Street between Niagara and Amherst -- the old Pratt and Lambert and the Pratt and Letchworth sites if those are abandoned? Tear the old hulks down and let 'em build close to the river.

    I'm sure that others could point to other large plots of land that might be suitable for a BassPro.

    Better yet, why not bring in a Cabela's?
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    An avid outdoorsman I know has been saying that Cabela's is a better store than Bass Pro anyway.

    Personally, I think either one in downtown Buffalo is going to sink. (No pun intended). Locals just aren't going to run into a fishing behemoth to pick up some extra line on the way to the Bird Island Pier - and outsiders would much rather visit a Bass Pro in a "touristy" city like Toronto.

    Just my 2 cents.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ghosthunter
    An avid outdoorsman I know has been saying that Cabela's is a better store than Bass Pro anyway.

    Personally, I think either one in downtown Buffalo is going to sink. (No pun intended). Locals just aren't going to run into a fishing behemoth to pick up some extra line on the way to the Bird Island Pier - and outsiders would much rather visit a Bass Pro in a "touristy" city like Toronto.

    Just my 2 cents.
    How many bass pros are there now?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    How many bass pros are there now?
    Looks to me to be + or - about 60, res.

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    Quote Originally Posted by speaker
    Looks to me to be + or - about 60, res.
    And I'm sure that once it's built (ha ha), everyone will be putting Buffalo on the top of their to-do list.

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    I'm not crazy about this whole Bass Pro thing. But I'd like to see what other ideas people have for the site.

    Keep in mind that it's been vacant for, what, 10 years, and this is the first project to come to the forefront (ie no one is knocking our doors down with interest)

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    How many bass pros are there now?
    When this was originally proposed, there was only a "small" BP in Auburn (just west of Syracuse), so the Buffalo BP was supposed to draw from "all over the Northeast, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Canada".

    Now there's a mega store in Toronto and another mega store south and west of Pittsburgh. These two stores take in much of the territory that the Buffalo was supposed to serve, so I don't see how this huge Buffalo store -- which was projected to bring in something like 3+ million shoppers -- could be economically feasible.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by therising
    I'm not crazy about this whole Bass Pro thing. But I'd like to see what other ideas people have for the site.

    Keep in mind that it's been vacant for, what, 10 years, and this is the first project to come to the forefront (ie no one is knocking our doors down with interest)
    Actually, this wasn't Bass Pro's idea, but Bob Rich, Jr's brain child. Rich is buddies with the owner of BP down in FLA.

    I suspect there might be considerable interest in the site if the Aud was gone. I don't think there were any takers because of just what's been found: it's too costly to do something with it -- if you could think of something to do with it.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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