Petition against taxpayer funded stadium

[grump]

Personally, I would love to see an opportunity to have a permissive referendum on any bonding that they may utilize for the public funding portion.

However I believe it is a fait accompli, I only hope that there is some pay for performance provisions in any future lease. If the whole sale on the public funding part is drawing in people from outside the area then they should put their money where there mouths are. Who is going to travel to this area to see a losing team?

Personally, I would love the opportunity to have a referendum on whether Poloncarz should be able to provide a taxpayer funded do nothing job for his brother. That is a fait accompli!!

[dtwarren]

Isn't that going to be held in 2016?

[300miles]

If Terry/someone covers the cost of the stadium you really can't ask for much more. The state or county would have to supply the connecting roads though but that cost would be covered by the property taxes/taxes generated by the stadium. Can't be tax free otherwise it's pointless.

People keep implying that Pegula will just pull a billion dollars from his wallet and pay for it himself, but I don't see why he would. Honest question... Is there any precedence for that at all? Has any owner come out and paid for a new stadium out of his own pocket without any public funding?

[WNYresident]

People keep implying that Pegula will just pull a billion dollars from his wallet and pay for it himself, but I don't see why he would. Honest question... Is there any precedence for that at all? Has any owner come out and paid for a new stadium out of his own pocket without any public funding?

Three business men each kick in 300,000,000 versus 1 with a billion.

Buffalo was noted for being the "first" with a lot of inventions and ideas throughout it's history. This could be the first example of a privately funded football stadium. It would be a good if the community (people) didn't pay for a stadium that for the most part don't benefit from it. Let the people who benefit from it's profits pay for it. Simple as that. Now if the tax payers foot most of the bill then the stadium should not be named after a business. If someone said the Aud you knew what was meant. If you said the Rockpile you know what was meant. I don't think the Aud ever had a name like "Mcdonald's War Memorial Auditorium".

[nickelcityhomes]

I only hope that there is some pay for performance provisions

I tried to convince my ex-wife of that. Didn't work out very well.

[cheekman]

People keep implying that Pegula will just pull a billion dollars from his wallet and pay for it himself, but I don't see why he would. Honest question... Is there any precedence for that at all? Has any owner come out and paid for a new stadium out of his own pocket without any public funding?

No owner has foot the bill on a new stadium not even jerry jones he got public money to build his palace.. jones over sees what can go on inside the stadium which is wrong.. much like wilson county owned but ralph ruled the stadium. if any taxpayer money goes into it that owner has no right to tell the county what can go on inside of it. Money bags has more money than he knows what to do with so if he wants he pays. You are talking the fourth poorest city in the nation and these idiots want more money from the taxpayers.. BS

[300miles]

Three business men each kick in 300,000,000 versus 1 with a billion.

Buffalo was noted for being the "first" with a lot of inventions and ideas throughout it's history. This could be the first example of a privately funded football stadium. It would be a good if the community (people) didn't pay for a stadium that for the most part don't benefit from it. Let the people who benefit from it's profits pay for it. Simple as that.

But why would they? Just because it would be good for the community isn't a business reason. And even if NYS/ErieCounty tried to put their foot down and not pay (which they won't) Bills fans will start screaming about how we'll lose the Bills (again) and life on the planet will cease to exist, and then they'll cave in anyway. Any owner would know this.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

People keep implying that Pegula will just pull a billion dollars from his wallet and pay for it himself, but I don't see why he would. Honest question... Is there any precedence for that at all? Has any owner come out and paid for a new stadium out of his own pocket without any public funding?

It's my understanding that MetLife Stadium did not take any public funds and was paid for by the owners of the Jets and Giants. The stadium cost $1.6B so the half on that is similar to what Pegula would be looking for.

So why would owners pay for it on their own when in other areas they get public money? Control. If the public had any say in MetLife stadium it would be a dome. However the owners of the Jets and Giants wanted the weather to act as a late seasons game advantage and they since they were paying for it they did not want the extra cost.


Now I do not know Terry but what I do know is he is a guy who is used to calling the shots at his company and being in an industry that has some regulation issues. I also know he is worth about $4.6B, has a few kids and is 64 years old. He made every penny that he has and he's on the back end of his years. I don't think it's too far of a reach for the guy to say I'll pay for the entire thing just so I can ensure I don't have to deal with stupid politicians, labor unions, NIBYs, and frivolous lawsuits from the likes of Tim Tielman.

I really don't think people grasp just how much money this guy has. Just $1B of his money is enough to provide for multiple generations.

Beyond that, it's not like his investment in the Sabres or Bills is going to lose money. The Sabres are worth $288M, which is increase of $124M from what Pegula purchase the team for. He overpaid for the Bills but it's not difficult to see the franchise being worth more than $2B in 15-20 years from now. Live sports are one of the few things that actually make money on TV. I actually am projecting that in 5 years the cable monopoly is going to be broken (see. HBO and SlingTV) and the NFL contract is going to get even larger.


But really I just think he does not GAF about money like some people worth that much do and just wants to enjoy what he earned with those he cares about. It's not that far of a reach.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

No owner has foot the bill on a new stadium not even jerry jones he got public money to build his palace..

You're wrong. As usual.

[cheekman]

You're wrong. As usual.

look a little deeper BED TAX.. etc .. lots of hidden taxes on these places only problem the public has no clue on the ones they say are owner built. much like the hidden taxes you pay for the NFTA..
Most Jacksonville hotel guests never set foot in EverBank Field during their stays, but they would end up paying the city’s share of a $63 million renovation of EverBank Field.

Im so glad your a A know-it-all on this site..

[grump]

Isn't that going to be held in 2016?

No, because even if Polncarz loses his half wit brother will still be on the payroll at the Board of Elections. I want voter approval before hiring. Your argument is the same that applies to giving money for a stadium. If you don't like it vote them out but the money still gone if you vote them out afterward. I thought that was the whole purpose of a voter referendum...to decide before the money is spent.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

look a little deeper BED TAX.. etc .. lots of hidden taxes on these places only problem the public has no clue on the ones they say are owner built. much like the hidden taxes you pay for the NFTA..
Most Jacksonville hotel guests never set foot in EverBank Field during their stays, but they would end up paying the city’s share of a $63 million renovation of EverBank Field.

Im so glad your a A know-it-all on this site..

The Bed tax that's paid by people who are from out of the region and pay when they visit? Yes, this is the same as paying for a stadium. Exactly the same thing. Good job!

[grump]

If the idea of a bed tax is to raise $$$ from out of towners will locals get an exemption when they check in with their afternoon delight in order to avoid getting caught by hubby or wifey? Just asking.

[300miles]

It's my understanding that MetLife Stadium did not take any public funds and was paid for by the owners of the Jets and Giants. The stadium cost $1.6B so the half on that is similar to what Pegula would be looking for.

So why would owners pay for it on their own when in other areas they get public money? Control. If the public had any say in MetLife stadium it would be a dome. However the owners of the Jets and Giants wanted the weather to act as a late seasons game advantage and they since they were paying for it they did not want the extra cost.


Now I do not know Terry but what I do know is he is a guy who is used to calling the shots at his company and being in an industry that has some regulation issues. I also know he is worth about $4.6B, has a few kids and is 64 years old. He made every penny that he has and he's on the back end of his years. I don't think it's too far of a reach for the guy to say I'll pay for the entire thing just so I can ensure I don't have to deal with stupid politicians, labor unions, NIBYs, and frivolous lawsuits from the likes of Tim Tielman.

I really don't think people grasp just how much money this guy has. Just $1B of his money is enough to provide for multiple generations.

Beyond that, it's not like his investment in the Sabres or Bills is going to lose money. The Sabres are worth $288M, which is increase of $124M from what Pegula purchase the team for. He overpaid for the Bills but it's not difficult to see the franchise being worth more than $2B in 15-20 years from now. Live sports are one of the few things that actually make money on TV. I actually am projecting that in 5 years the cable monopoly is going to be broken (see. HBO and SlingTV) and the NFL contract is going to get even larger.

But really I just think he does not GAF about money like some people worth that much do and just wants to enjoy what he earned with those he cares about. It's not that far of a reach.

A lot of that would be plausible. And I wasn't aware of MetLife being privately funded. So that's good to know, especially since we're in the same state, people might expect that to be explored as an option. But where I disagree is that while Pegula is incredibly wealthy, that money is not liquid. So in order to use it he has to dismantle the other businesses he owns (by selling land or rights or whatever), the very things that are making him big money. He did that recently with much of the billion he spent on the Bills, but would he do it again with another Billion for a stadium? Just a few years after sinking a Billion into the team? I'm not so sure. While owning the team is usually a private venture, stadiums are usually a public/private mix. And owning a team could be a worthy investment that could increase in value, but a stadium is not. I would think buying a stadium is like buying a car... it immediately begins depreciating the day after it's built. While the value in the Bills could double in 10 years, the value of the stadium is something he wouldn't recoup. I would think that's something he would not want to blow up to 25% of his net worth on, especially after he just recently spent 20% of his wealth on buying the team. That would be a huge investment into one thing. But if he's a Bills fanatic with a billion dollars burning a hole in his pocket I guess he might just take the plunge and throw all in.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

A lot of that would be plausible. And I wasn't aware of MetLife being privately funded. So that's good to know, especially since we're in the same state, people might expect that to be explored as an option.

MetLife is in New Jersey not New York. FWIW, there was a lot of work done by the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey...which gets funding by both states. What needs to be looked at is the contribution New York State made to the new baseball stadiums for the Mets and Yankees, new arena for the Brooklyn Nets and for updates to MSG for the Knicks and Rangers.

But where I disagree is that while Pegula is incredibly wealthy, that money is not liquid. So in order to use it he has to dismantle the other businesses he owns (by selling land or rights or whatever), the very things that are making him big money.

When Royal Dutch Shell purchased his company in 2010, his share of the $4.7B sale price was $3.3B...liquid. His company also made a sale last Aug for $1.75B of some land...of which I am sure he is getting a very large cut. By all accounts and information online the majority of his wealth is in fact liquid. So where are you getting that it's not liquid?

He did that recently with much of the billion he spent on the Bills, but would he do it again with another Billion for a stadium? Just a few years after sinking a Billion into the team? I'm not so sure. While owning the team is usually a private venture, stadiums are usually a public/private mix. And owning a team could be a worthy investment that could increase in value, but a stadium is not. I would think buying a stadium is like buying a car... it immediately begins depreciating the day after it's built. While the value in the Bills could double in 10 years, the value of the stadium is something he wouldn't recoup.

It depends on how the deal is done...if it ever is a deal.

If Pegula owned the stadium he would get all of the revenue from the stadium and it's parking. Now Buffalo is obviously not Metro NYC but the owners of the Jets and Giants split the $100M a year in stadium revenue from concerts, naming rights and a handful of top-tier or “cornerstone” sponsors. That pays off the nut for the stadium in less than 17 years. Now Buffalo is not the Bay Area but Levi's is paying the 49'ers $220M over 11 years for naming rights. I think it would not be a reach to think that the stadium could generate $50M a year or half of what MetLife does. 20 years @ $50M a year is $1B.

Again..it's all speculation...very fun speculation at that. I just think that Pegula has so much damn money he plays by a different set of rules. While he owns a team in the 2nd smallest market he is I think the 3rd or 4th mostly wealthy owner. Paul Allen is at $15+ and he is in the pack with Kroenke, Glazer and Kraft. Most of the NFL owners are just over the Billion dollar mark but we need to consider is a huge difference between $4B and $1B.