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Thread: Collars for Dollars???

  1. #1
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Collars for Dollars???

    You have to be kidding me.....

    What is really sad is there are cops in this story who have the arrogance to try to explain to us that scamming on court time is OK!!!

    I've said it before here: time for a radical change in how things are done here. A serious cultural change.

    http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...14/1045535.asp

    or - full text below (part 1 of 2..)

    Officers' court time drains scarce resources
    By LOU MICHEL and SUSAN SCHULMAN
    News Staff Reporters
    12/14/2003
    Police call the technique "collars for dollars," and here's how it works in Buffalo.
    One officer buys drugs from a teenager on Congress Street.

    A second officer arrests the teenager.

    A third checks the teenager's left jacket pocket, a fourth his right jacket pocket, a fifth his pants pocket.

    A sixth officer then gathers the six bags of cocaine and $20 the three officers found.

    A lieutenant helps.

    The arrest sheet lists all seven officers.

    When it comes time for the case to go to court, the district attorney has as many as seven officers to call for pretrial conference.

    And because the conference is held when some of the officers are off duty, any who attend get a "court time" stipend.

    That's expensive.

    Each time a Buffalo police officer is called to court during off-duty hours, he or she gets a minimum of four hours' pay - or an average of about $116, even if the meeting lasts five minutes.

    "I've been hearing those words "collars for dollars' for 30 years, and it makes me sick. It means you're only in it for the money," Deputy Police Commissioner Mark E. Blankenberg said. "It's a very small minority of officers who feel that way, but one is too many."

    Last year, 535 officers earned at least $1,000 each in court time, a Buffalo News analysis found.

    One officer got more than $32,000. Six others collected more than $20,000. And 25 others received more than $15,000.

    Court time - paid above the officer's regular pay - cost the city about $10 million during the past three years, The News found.

    Other city police departments don't operate this way. Buffalo pays as much as six to 10 times more for court time than five similar-size city police departments. Much of the court time funds in the Buffalo Police Department go to pay officers who made good arrests and whose testimony is crucial to get convictions.

    "So many officers, especially in patrol, are working extremely hard, and if it wasn't for them, many of the bad people wouldn't be taken off the street," said James P. Giammaresi, the department's chief of staff.

    "I understand court time is costly to the city, but it's the price of doing business, bringing lawbreakers to justice," added Officer Donald Genovese, a member of the department's elite Gang Suppression Unit.

    Milking the system

    But some officers milk the system with minor arrests, getting more officers than necessary involved in a case and writing arrest reports with limited details or too much detail - all so they qualify for court time, police and prosecutors said. In addition, some officers routinely ask for pretrial conferences to be rescheduled for when the officer is off duty and eligible for court time, or they tell the prosecuting assistant district attorney they don't "know all of the information," making it necessary to call in other officers, officials said.


    Beyond that, the police department's own policies are blamed for inflating court time costs in recent years. The News found:

    • A lack of coordination between the Police Department and the Erie County district attorney's office.

    • Multiple officers routinely permitted to attend hearings and pretrial meetings. • Day-to-day administration of police court time overseen by a lieutenant, not a member of the police department's non-union management team.

    • A negotiated union contract permitting officers to get court time pay on days when they call in sick for regular duty.

    "I think the system is broken. Other departments do a better job scrutinizing who goes to court," Giammaresi said.

    Police spending is the largest single cost in Buffalo, a city in such bad financial shape that it is laying off employees and shrinking the Police Department under the guidance of a financial control board.

    As part of an ongoing review of city finances, The News analyzed Police Department court time - one of the biggest costs in the department beyond base pay.

    The review found that, if the Police Department could get its court time in line with other cities, it could save at least $1 million - possibly $3 million - annually.


    ---see part 2 - continued
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  2. #2
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    collars for dollars part 2

    here's the rest of it.




    Hoping to cut costs

    Buffalo police, the review found, were paid $3.35 million in court time in 2000-01 and $3.4 million in 2001-02. Last year, the 2002-03 fiscal year, court time cost the city $3.6 million - even though steps were taken to reduce court time.

    The Police Department hopes to reduce court time to $2.8 million this year. But one-quarter of the way into the fiscal year, spending is above budget.

    While that's bad news to the city, it means more money for some of the department's 846 officers.

    In the past three years, a dozen officers earned a three-year total of $50,000 or more in court time. It's a big chunk of money to officers whose base salary is usually between $48,000 and $50,000.

    Buffalo's court time - averaging $4,255 per officer - was the highest in five similar-size cities. In Toledo, Ohio, court time last year for the 675-member police department was about $336,000, or $497 per officer. Rochester, with a 707-member force, spent $536,000 last year, or $758 per officer.

    The Newark department, with 1,200 officers, spent $2.7 million, as did Pittsburgh, with 900 officers. They averaged $2,250 and $3,000 per officer, respectively.

    All five departments, except Buffalo, generally send only one officer to most preliminary court hearings as well as many court cases. One department sent reports - not officers - to preliminary hearings.

    "We said, "Hey, if you have five officers and they are all going to testify to the same thing, why not just have one?' " said Capt. James Matthews of the Toledo police. Toledo is also among the departments that offer a combination of compensatory time off and money - rather than just money - to reduce court time. When initially questioned about high court time costs in Buffalo, Blankenberg put much of the blame on the district attorney's office for calling so many officers. "I've got cases where there are several pretrial conferences on the same case. How many conferences do you need to set up a prosecution?" Blankenberg asked. District Attorney Frank C. Clark, in turn, placed the blame on the way officers write arrest reports. It leaves his prosecutors with no choice but to call in several officers for pretrial conferences, he said.

    "We weren't able to satisfy our legal obligations by calling in just one or two officers," Clark said. "The charging documents (arrest reports) reflected there were more officers than required." And Robert P. Meegan, president of the Police Benevolent Association, said it's often important for several officers to appear because "each sees different things."

    Meegan also said court time can be costly for officers because they don't receive mileage or parking reimbursement. There are also baby-sitting expenses for some officers with young children, "not to mention the inconvenience to an officer's off-duty time," Meegan said.


    Working on changes

    A couple of weeks after the initial interviews, Blankenberg contacted The News to say the Police Department and the district attorney's office are working together to change the way court time is handled.

    Only one officer will be assigned to City Court cases from now on, and just one officer - a case manager - will be familiar with the entire case for pretrial hearings. "There is no need for any other officer unless there is a trial, and the vast majority of cases (are pleaded and) never go to trial," Blankenberg added.

    Also, Blankenberg said, the lieutenant serving as the department's court liaison left the position Saturday and will be replaced by a representative of management, possibly an attorney, who police brass hope will help control court time costs.

    Clark said he is happy to work with the Police Department to economize. "If we can get one officer who is competent to testify to all the elements we need, that means instead of calling four officers, we're able to establish our legal burdens by calling one officer," the DA said.

    Blankenberg also said some officers have been less than cooperative with prosecutors unless they are given court time.

    That's going to change, he said: "By January we should see a significant reduction in court time. If we don't, we're going to have to re-evaluate and see why not."


    Previous efforts

    This isn't the first time the Police Department said it was clamping down. As recently as last year, the department announced plans to cut court time expenses. Through closer monitoring of who goes to court and through on-again, off-again discussions with the district attorney's office, the department did cut overall court time hours from the previous year.

    But police also received a pay raise last year. And there were still times when several officers attended court hearings.

    As a result, court time costs rose.

    The Congress Street case was among those that added to last year's costs.

    In that case, five detectives from the seven officers involved in the drug bust on Nov. 1, 2002, were called in twice for pretrial conferences on court time.

    The district attorney's office said it was necessary to call the five because the arrest reports showed each officer was familiar with a particular aspect of the arrest, but none had overall knowledge. The cost of those pretrial conferences: about $1,000.

    And as it turned out, it was for naught: The case never went forward. Prosecutors, after reviewing the evidence, determined problems existed with the way the officers had conducted the search.

    "Isn't that embarrassing," Blankenberg said. "Shame on us."

    Narcotics Lt. Thomas Lyon, who supervised the Congress Street drug bust, stood by the actions of his detectives. "We do a quick search at the scene, then for the safety of the suspect as well as the officers, the suspect is taken to central booking for a more intensified search," Lyon explained.

    Several officers are involved in the search for safety reasons, and the arrest reports list every officer involved, and what he or she did, at the request of the district attorney's office - not because the officers are vying for court time, Lyon said.

    "We document whatever takes place during the course of an undercover buy and arrest. This was specifically requested of us by the DA's office," Lyon said. "We could list 100 names, but (prosecutors) decide who they need to prosecute the case."
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  3. #3
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    If you believe what you read in the newspaper, you are foolish.

  4. #4
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    If you believe what you read in the newspaper, you are foolish.

    Well, please enlighten us with specific information that contradicts the above article.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

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    Ok, as quickly as I can, ..say your child gets an F in his 8th grade science class. His other grades are all A's and B's. Will you inquire at the school about this grade, or will you just take the grade as posted on the childs report card ? Could a mistake have been made ? Wouldn't you want to hear from his teacher the reason for the failure ? I would . Now, extend that to the legal system. Would it be OK for the DA to say to the Atty-Judge, "well,the Officer charged Assault 1st, therefore, that is the crime the suspect is guilty of, period." Why, because on the arrest report , that is what the Officer charged." Def Atty- "Were there mitigating circumstances ?" DA-" Don't know" Atty-Was there a 710.30 (defendant admission) ? DA-"Yes, defendant said he was sorry"... Atty-"Sorry for what ?"DA- Don't know,Officer isn't at court to explain." Alot can be said in a conversation, between a Cop and a DA., yes, even in one minute...Ask the ADA's if they can run a case with knowing just what is on an arrest report. All I can tell you is there is alot more to it than meets the eye, or is portrayed in the News. To assume, when you are talking about someones freedom, would be a travesty. Sometimes things are learned about a crime, after an arrest, that the Officer can tell the DA. Be it good or bad for the defendant.

  6. #6
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    well, that's not very specific. In fact, that's a hypothetical example of a special case.

    As a taxpayer, It seems to me that the Buffalo police rack of A LOT more court time than other comparable cities. a LOT MORE. Are the cases here that much more complex than other cities like Buffalo? I don't think so. Then why are their court time expenses so much lower?

    And, when you say "don't believe the Buffalo News" - the majority of the article was a compilation of statements made by police officers themselves.

    You really haven't made a case that there ISN'T institutional corruption by the BPD regarding court time.

    All I can tell you is there is alot more to it than meets the eye, or is portrayed in the News.

    You now have the floor. What is this information that "is more than meets the eye"? Is it classified? Confidental? Feel free to make your case. are you telling us that you have knowledge that bolsters your case, but you can't or won't share it with us, why should we believe you?
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  7. #7
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Yes, this is about money period. Curm is correct in stating why is it less in other areas of the states. It's proven by looking at the money spent per officer in other states. Its not like we are just making this stuff up.

    What makes you so special that you should be the highest paid law enforment/ goverment employee in the united states?

  8. #8
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    from the Bflo News:

    Arrests aren't made just to get court time

    1/7/2004

    I decided to write this letter after I read The News article about how Buffalo police officers receive compensation for their court time. The writers' opening sentences were over-the-top. I do not believe that there are officers who make an arrest solely because they want court time. Arrests are made by the hard-working men and women of the force who put their lives on hold to go to court when they are called upon to do so - even after very little sleep or time with their families.
    To say that we purposefully find items in every nook and cranny of a person and then give each corresponding piece to another officer is unfair. It also paints a poor picture of the officers who help people every day. From time to time, it takes more than one officer to get the job done, just as with any job. I mean, it did take two journalists to write the article, didn't it?

    DERRICK BANASZAK
    Cheektowaga

    Thanks for the heartfelt expressions of what you think.
    It doesn't do much for the taxpayer who pays a fortune for BPD court costs compared to other comparable cities.
    We don't know who Derrick or what he does. Anybody want to hazard a guess?
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

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    To WNY res, we (BPD) aren't the highest paid law enforcement or government employees in the nation. Do some homework, otherwise you will look foolish. Go to policepay.net and look at the figures. As far as Curm, go down to city court. See for your own eyes. I don't care if you don't believe what I post. Get charged with a crime and see if you don't want the Officer to testify. Go talk to the ADA's. See what they tell you. They, not us, determine who gets called to court. Do you understand that ? The DA's Office determines who gets called for court. Court is held at 10am and 2pm, 50 Delaware. I don't work in other cities, nor have I, to be able to tell you why they don't spend as much as Bflo does on court costs, if, the NEWS numbers are even accurate. It would be stupid for me to speculate, so I won't. Let the armchair quarterbacks and second guessers do that. They have all the answers. While you are at it, find out what % of complaintants appear, I am interested in that #. Also , talk to some defense Attys. and ask them what is going on. You may be surprised at the answers you get. It must be nice to sit back , make statements, give oversimplified remedies to solve problems, that it is painfully obvious you know little about. Personally, I've seen too much and know better than to do that.

  10. #10
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    They, not us, determine who gets called to court. Do you understand that ?

    Tthat's right. The allegation of the BPD is that the officers involved in an arrest PURPOSELY give partial documentation in arrest reports and structure the reports so that it appears that each officer involved has only part of the story, nesessitating calling in all the officers for paid hearings.

    To blame the DA's office after fudging the arrest reports is like blaming the IRS for processing your fradulent return.



    I don't work in other cities, nor have I, to be able to tell you why they don't spend as much as Bflo does on court costs, if, the NEWS numbers are even accurate.

    Don't blame me, I just work here.



    Personally, I've seen too much and know better than to do that

    Another world-weary civil servant who tells us we can't comprehend what's REALLY going on.

    I'm starting to see a pattern here.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

  11. #11
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Deerhunter,

    I'm gathering my info from the news paper and what other people in the area say. IF you look at statisitcs compiled on salaries etc NYS is always at the top of the list.

    Perhaps your one of the good cops which deserves what you get paid. WHen you see some police earning $20,000 or more in overtime there's something not right period. OH and the retirement beni's are out of hand period. In one article in the news I believe some recent retirees will be making upwards of $53,000 a year plus healthcare not counting SSI.

    My opinion is I don't want to pay as much as we do across the board for the services we have in NYS. Not just police in buffalo but also the surrounding towns. THere's nothing wrong with fair pay but things are out of hand. Now not all people working in goverment agencies are over paid, I'm only refering to the ones that are overpaid.

    Somewhere on this board someone posted how many days off some goverment employees get off while collecting upwards of $75,000 to $100,000 a year. I think it averaged to less than 4 days a week required work time.

    The whole point is if a consumer can go to a walmart to save money they do. THere are no laws which state that a person has to shop at the local guy and not go into walmart. I would love to just say i want more for my product and automatically get it. It doesn't work that way. I could raise my cost up and people don't purchase from me.

    It's also not my issue if you can't survive on what your paycheck is. I dont see you standing up for small businesses that have competition coming in with lower pricing.

    Don't take it personally but i like my money in my pocket. IF i can save it I will. If i can shop for my services somewhere else you can't stop me. What makes you think in general the local public wouldn't want to shop around for the best price on thier services?

  12. #12
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Here's an example. WHy didn't the police force in general all lower thier salaries to save the jobs of the court reporters?

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    WNY, did the RT's take a pay cut when the city laid off 32 Cops ? And Curm, it is up to the DA who he/she calls. If they deem it neccessary to call in everyone involved in a case, so be it. And I can tell you, it is rare that they do. Question, WNY guy, what would you think of an Officer who didn't make 1 court appearance, thus no - overtime. Would you deem paying that guy/girl 55k annually, a waste of money ? I would. Do either of you object to State Police making 75k annually ? Their ot is built in to their salary. You are nys residents, I assume. Does that bother you ? And Curm, I know I am a lowly civil servant, who you obviously have bias against, but your dislike for me is nothing like the hatred I encounter on a daily basis. Call me stupid , ignorant, or anything you want, I've been called worse, as well as been attacked, spit on , had guns aimed at me...by real bad guys, not a guy spouting off behind a computer screen. I work 4- ten hrs days, then have 3 off, then 4 on, and 4 off, and made about 60k this yr.....who is stupid ? I'm interested in hearing about your experience in city court too. Lets hear about it, expert.

  14. #14
    Member yokes's Avatar
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    Ok then Dearhunter you are a subject matter expert more than I am by my own admission. So I have a few questions from the article that started this thread.

    "Buffalo's court time - averaging $4,255 per officer - was the highest in five similar-size cities. In Toledo, Ohio, court time last year for the 675-member police department was about $336,000, or $497 per officer. Rochester, with a 707-member force, spent $536,000 last year, or $758 per officer.

    The Newark department, with 1,200 officers, spent $2.7 million, as did Pittsburgh, with 900 officers. They averaged $2,250 and $3,000 per officer, respectively"


    How is it possible for them to be so much less expensive? Are the crimes in the City different?

    Secondly before you say the DA calls the officers, which I will give you, answer this also from the article

    "District Attorney Frank C. Clark, in turn, placed the blame on the way officers write arrest reports. It leaves his prosecutors with no choice but to call in several officers for pretrial conferences, he said.

    "We weren't able to satisfy our legal obligations by calling in just one or two officers," Clark said. "The charging documents (arrest reports) reflected there were more officers than required." And Robert P. Meegan, president of the Police Benevolent Association, said it's often important for several officers to appear because "each sees different things.""


    Are the police arrests here that much different than other cities and town?

    What are the "Different Things" mr Meegan refers to?

    I agree Policing is necessary and I am all for paying for it but it has to be accountable and responsible.

  15. #15
    Member Curmudgeon's Avatar
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    Do either of you object to State Police making 75k annually ?
    Yes. That I haven't said it here (yet) doesn't mean I don't object to it.

    Call me stupid , ignorant, or anything you want, I've been called worse, as well as been attacked, spit on , had guns aimed at me...by real bad guys, not a guy spouting off behind a computer screen.
    If you feel you're not being paid enough for your job, do what I would do and quit and find a better job. NOBODY has the right to demand a wage and be paid what they demand. Not even police officers.


    I work 4- ten hrs days, then have 3 off, then 4 on, and 4 off, and made about 60k this yr.....who is stupid ?
    I don't really get this: are you saying you get great hours and get a living wage for it, therefore that proves you are not stupid?

    I'm interested in hearing about your experience in city court too. Lets hear about it, expert.
    Read the previous post: Another world-weary civil servant who tells us we can't comprehend what's REALLY going on.


    And Curm, it is up to the DA who he/she calls. If they deem it neccessary to call in everyone involved in a case, so be it.
    This is the third time we've visited this issue. So, you neither confirm nor deny the BPD fudges police reports to make it nessessary for the DA's office to call cops for unnessessary court hearings. You just repeat "the DA's call us in" phrase again and again.
    Data is not the plural of Anecdote.

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