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Thread: Buffalo teacher pay would rise by 11.8% in proposed accord

  1. #31
    Member NY The Vampire State's Avatar
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    Once again Linda doesn't know what she's talking about and can't pass up an opportunity to be rude

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY The Vampire State View Post
    Lazy teacher
    http://bit.ly/1CNiOrl

    Median household income for the most part, has been declining since 2000.

    Care to tell us how much you give the union?
    Lazy whatever you do. You didn't bother to read that the dollar values are adjusted for Consumer Price Index (aka inflation+some other factors). I guess that's why you make the big bucks and I'm just a "lazy teacher". It must be your incredible attention to detail and your willingness to work with others while you consider problems intelligently that permit you to earn your lavish salary. Keep pressing your agenda, must be "dem yoonions" keeping everything down...
    Last edited by Genoobie; December 27th, 2014 at 09:19 AM.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    You didn't bother to read that the dollar values are adjusted for Consumer Price Index (aka inflation+some other factors).
    All of the numbers are adjusted. The ones given by Linda as well as the chart Vampire posted from FRED.

    I thank Linda, gorja and Vampire for posting their sources so I can double check.

  4. #34
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    Then if we are using adjusted dollars, teachers' salaries haven't risen either and in the case of Buffalo, have declined.

    According to this chart here,
    http://www.advisorperspectives.com/d...ome-Growth.php

    Nominal median income growth from the 2004-2013 period is approximately 80%. In that same time, my salary has nominally grown by approximately 30%. Therefore a decline in nominal median income. With a corresponding decline in "adjusted" income.
    Last edited by Genoobie; December 27th, 2014 at 10:07 AM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    Perhaps you didn't read carefully. It's not an increase in pay. It's restoration of the initially promised contract with a 3% pay cut. Could you provide evidence that the "real incomes in the US for the Average American have gone down"?
    Please refer to the plethora of statistical information available online. You will see it is not debatable and readily observable by just about all but the 1%

    Regardless of what they are asking The problem remains that we can no longer as a nation, as a community afford to keep some promises.. sad but it's called the reality of Arithmetic. When that math is ignored there are dire consequences,, just ask the mayor of Detroit a few months ago.

    Let me see if I can explain a better way..........Retailers had a great season much to do with the low price of the commodity of oil. Unfortunately government expenditure is a commodity that competes with private sector for disposable income. However this commodity cannot be avoided or shopped.

    Americans had better learn to live with cuts in their entitlements, we can do it on our terms or terms that are foisted upon us. It will happen things change... We are no longer the worlds biggest economy after 65 + years

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    Please refer to the plethora of statistical information available online. You will see it is not debatable and readily observable by just about all but the 1%

    Regardless of what they are asking The problem remains that we can no longer as a nation, as a community afford to keep some promises.. sad but it's called the reality of Arithmetic. When that math is ignored there are dire consequences,, just ask the mayor of Detroit a few months ago.

    Let me see if I can explain a better way..........Retailers had a great season much to do with the low price of the commodity of oil. Unfortunately government expenditure is a commodity that competes with private sector for disposable income. However this commodity cannot be avoided or shopped.

    Americans had better learn to live with cuts in their entitlements, we can do it on our terms or terms that are foisted upon us. It will happen things change... We are no longer the worlds biggest economy after 65 + years
    You're right, I should use the private sector accounting to value my course. My course meets 186 days for 42 minutes a day that consitutes about an 8.6 credit hour course. At the lowest tuition rates around, each student would pay $179 / credit hour. With 150 students that would come to $230,000. Consider that I could rent the space, buy equipment, etc., for at most $20,000 / yr. That leaves me with a paycheck of $210,000. Would that be check or cash?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    You're right, I should use the private sector accounting to value my course. My course meets 186 days for 42 minutes a day that consitutes about an 8.6 credit hour course. At the lowest tuition rates around, each student would pay $179 / credit hour. With 150 students that would come to $230,000. Consider that I could rent the space, buy equipment, etc., for at most $20,000 / yr. That leaves me with a paycheck of $210,000. Would that be check or cash?
    Do you feel you are underpaid? If you do then there are many people that would take your job and in fact have to move to other states to find work if they can. Supply and demand applies to professions as well as durable goods. Teaching in my opinion is a noble profession. However there are no guarantees in the real world of any kind. It takes a long time to produce an orthopedic surgeon and they have high societal value so they are paid commensurately. They have high replacement value. Supply and demand is the universal law. In anticipation of a point you might make, I find it ridiculous that a master's degree or higher is necessary to teach kindergarten, most teachers I have met agree.

    You are not paid by for education but by what society currently values. There are 30 million college graduates living at home right now because they cannot find work. Getting a degree in history, social studies, communication, history, english, confers the same probability of employment today as it did when I was in school. Math, science, engineering, and technology are hard majors, but is is where society right or wrong places value currently.
    Last edited by Save Us; December 27th, 2014 at 01:12 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    Do you feel you are underpaid? If you do then there are many people that would take your job and in fact have to move to other states to find work if they can. Supply and demand applies to professions as well as durable goods. Teaching in my opinion is a noble profession. However there are no guarantees in the real world of any kind. It takes a long time to produce an orthopedic surgeon and they have high societal value so they are paid commensurately. They have high replacement value. Supply and demand is the universal law. In anticipation of a point you might make, I find it ridiculous that a master's degree or higher is necessary to teach kindergarten, most teachers I have met agree.

    You are not paid by for education but by what society currently values. There are 30 million college graduates living at home right now because they cannot find work. Getting a degree in history, social studies, communication, history, english, confers the same probability of employment today as it did when I was in school. Math, science, engineering, and technology are hard majors, but is is where society right or wrong places value currently.
    Well, time will tell. Teacher education programs have an all time low enrollment. While I don't feel particularly underpaid (because I have rental property to supplement my income and live in a building with tenants), I also don't feel that I am paid "market" value. I would take any one of the suburban contracts. Buffalo teachers have an unarguably more difficult job than their suburban peers (although that is changing in the 1st ring suburbs) but are the lowest paid (including benefits) among any one of these districts.

    While a master's degree is not "necessary" to teach kindergarten, advanced coursework that forces individuals to consider complex problems may enhance their cognitive development so that they can better manage the complex classroom dynamics.

    Personally, I have considered a switch back to engineering (Solar City will likely be hiring) so you may begin to see a departure from teaching. I still love the teaching aspect, it's everything else that has nothing to do with education or student achievement (bs evaluations, extra paperwork for pseudo-accountability, etc.) that is beginning to wear on me. Additionally, I am making far less (including benefits) than my present job, even though I enjoyed this job far more until recently.

  9. #39
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    It's pretty good for a part time job.

    How much do you give Phil Wantmore and the union?
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    What is it exactly that you do that you feel so free to comment on my chosen profession?

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genoobie View Post
    What is it exactly that you do that you feel so free to comment on my chosen profession?
    You're a public sector employee. If you don't like public input you should find other work. The public sector has no problem dictating how much we should pay in taxes, so fair is fair. Solar City might not be a good choice for you either. They take a lot of taxpayer handouts and there are people determined to track where it's spent. You said your class meets 186 days a year. There are 365 days in a year. Thats about half, hence its a part time job.

    Now I've asked three times, how much do you give the union. Its a simple question. If you're too embarrassed to tell just say you don't want to answer the question.
    Last edited by NY The Vampire State; December 27th, 2014 at 02:18 PM.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY The Vampire State View Post
    You're a public sector employee. If you don't like public input you should find other work. The public sector has no problem dictating how much we should pay in taxes, so fair is fair. Solar City might not be a good choice for you either. They take a lot of taxpayer handouts and there are people determined to track where it's spent. You said your class meets 186 days a year. There are 365 days in a year. Thats about half, hence its a part time job.

    Now I've asked three times, how much do you give the union. Its a simple question. If you're too embarrassed to tell just say you don't want to answer the question.
    Yes, please tell me who is contracted for 365 days / year? "G"ood "F"or "Y"ou. You didn't answer my question about your chosen profession. I'm pretty sure you can FOIA the dues information if you really want it? What do you think it is? You probably think it's thousands. When I worked in the private sector I had 8 paid holidays five sick days and four weeks paid vacation. I also had full health insurance. When you subtracted weekends and vacation + sick + holidays, that was 232 days. So that's 80% but my private sector salary was definitely more than 1.24 times what I earned as a teacher.

    Again, go ahead with your agenda, you clearly have an axe to grind so what I say doesn't matter. If teachers have it so darn good, give up your chosen profession stamping paperwork or moving assets or some other "job" where you do nothing and become a teacher.

    Incidentally, taxes are levied by the legislature. You don't like paying taxes? Move somewhere else or elect officials who agree with your point of view.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NY The Vampire State View Post
    It's pretty good for a part time job.

    How much do you give Phil Wantmore and the union?
    From http://www.btfny.org/index.php?optio...d=66&Itemid=76

    2013
    Buffalo Teachers Federation
    Dues

    No BTF Dues Increase in 9 Years

    Full-time
    (Local, State and National Total)
    $856.45
    January - July $568.54
    ($40.61 x 14 checks)

    September - December $287.91
    ($41.13 x 7 checks)

    BTF - $280.00

    NYSUT/AFT - $396.45

    NEA - $180.00

    Part Time
    (Local, State and National Total)
    $428.33
    January - July $284.34
    ($20.31 x 14 checks)
    September - December $143.99
    ($20.57 x 7 checks)

    BTF - $140.00
    NYSUT - $198.33
    NEA - $90.00

    Georgia L Schlager

  14. #44
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    Thumbs down How much of the enclosed goes to teach students?

    This was in 2010? Private better teaching schools cost less, and more students graduate


    The Buffalo Public Schools' per-student spending is the third highest among large districts in the United States, according to a recent study by the Center for Governmental Research in Rochester.
    The district spent $26,903 per student in 2010, according to the study.
    Two other districts in the state also ranked among the 10 districts spending the most. New York City ranked fourth, at $24,780 per student; Rochester ranked seventh, at $20,984 per student.

    [url]http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20120913/cityandregion/120919509
    Last edited by Jerry A; December 28th, 2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason: post icons

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry A View Post
    This was in 2010? Private better teaching schools cost less, and more students graduate


    The Buffalo Public Schools' per-student spending is the third highest among large districts in the United States, according to a recent study by the Center for Governmental Research in Rochester.
    The district spent $26,903 per student in 2010, according to the study.
    Two other districts in the state also ranked among the 10 districts spending the most. New York City ranked fourth, at $24,780 per student; Rochester ranked seventh, at $20,984 per student.

    [url]http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?aid=/20120913/cityandregion/120919509
    1) Apples to oranges. The kids that attend private school are raised in different environments. That's why the schools graduate more, not because they are intrinsically 'better'. The Fashion Institute of Technology graduates more students than any of the Ivy Leagues, would that make this a 'better' school?
    2) The cost per pupil is actually relatively low in Buffalo once you take into account special education services. The district classification level is almost 20%. This classification is what makes education cost more in Buffalo. If we break out general education students and even special education students, per pupil spending is actually near the bottom in NYS. Check the district's fiscal supplement at data.nysed.gov. The "news" doesn't report education data correctly.

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