NFTA rail cars in line for $32.8M makeover

[DelawareDistrict]

I don't know what the cost breakdown is for the metrorail itself. The NFTA in 2005 had an operating loss of $114,208,000. Total operating revenues were $68,285,000 vs. operating costs of $182,493.000. Fares only accounted for $23,264,000 of total revenues. Judging by those figures the subsidy is very high for the whole system.

2005 annual report

[300miles]

How much are roads subsidized? They don't pay for themselves either.

[DelawareDistrict]

How much are roads subsidized? They don't pay for themselves either.

You're right about road subsidies and many other things too, it looks like there is a lot of room for improvement. It is all the subsidies which inhibit competition and removes the incentive to operate/manufacture things efficiently. The result is the true costs are hidden and taxes go up.

[WNYresident]

I don't know what the cost breakdown is for the metrorail itself. The NFTA in 2005 had an operating loss of $114,208,000. Total operating revenues were $68,285,000 vs. operating costs of $182,493.000. Fares only accounted for $23,264,000 of total revenues. Judging by those figures the subsidy is very high for the whole system.

2005 annual report

wouldn't busses just be cheaper for us?

[Joe Buff]

How much are roads subsidized? They don't pay for themselves either.

People USE the roads. Hardly anybody uses the Metro. And hardly anybody would miss it if it disappeared.

[woodstock]

wouldn't busses just be cheaper for us?

thats if the rail actually went into cheektowaga. in the city, i live on a bus route with "public transportation" (in either direction) every half an hour. how often does NFTA run out there by you?

HA! .... did you get on the rail at fountain plaza? if yes, which way did you go? underground... or did you take a "free ride"?

[steven]

Hardly anybody uses the Metro. And hardly anybody would miss it if it disappeared.

averaged between 18,000 and 19,000 weekly riders
8.08 million this year.


ummmmmmmm

[Joe Buff]

averaged between 18,000 and 19,000 weekly riders
8.08 million this year.


ummmmmmmm

And how many people drove their cars???

[WNYresident]

averaged between 18,000 and 19,000 weekly riders
8.08 million this year.


ummmmmmmm

19,000 weekly riders = 52 weeks = 988,000 riders per year? So they must use it each 8.1 times per person?

$182,493,000 bucks / 19,000 people that use it = $9,604 per person?

Anyone know how many INDIVIUALS the NFTA carts around?

[300miles]

19,000 weekly riders = 52 weeks = 988,000 riders per year? So they must use it each 8.1 times per person?

8 million was for trains and buses.

[woodstock]

...the NFTA carts around?

at a buck 50 a pop, to the customers it isnt a "carting around", not to mention the extra for zones and transfers. and to "go metro", its twice the fair since where you're going has to bring you back.

[DelawareDistrict]

According to a 2003 D.O.T. report it cost $7.36 for each mile a bus traveled and $23.78 for each mile the metrorail traveled. Bus revenue covered 28% of actual operating costs and the metrorail revenue covered 18% of actual operating costs.

Based on that it would appear to be more economically prudent to return buses to main st.

[DelawareDistrict]

Looking at those figures one could say that a bus passenger receives $5.36 worth of service for every $1.50 spent. For the rail it would be $8.33 worth of service for every $1.50 spent

"Carting around" appears to be a fairly accurate portrayal.

[WNYresident]

Looking at those figures one could say that a bus passenger receives $5.36 worth of service for every $1.50 spent. For the rail it would be $8.33 worth of service for every $1.50 spent

"Carting around" appears to be a fairly accurate portrayal.

yeah we are carting them around

pay a $1.50 for a $8 buck ride!

[Curmudgeon]

For the rail it would be $8.33 worth of service for every $1.50 spent

Here's an idea: What percentage of the train budget is allocated to "fare enforcement"? You know, ticket machines, fare checkers, the law enforcement process for fare skippers, salary & benes of fare enforcement employees, bla, bla, bla....

If the "fare enforcement" regimen costs, say, 15% or greater of the entire system, it might make economic sense charge nothing at all for the rider. Yep, I said it. Free rides. Then we can get rid of the "fare enforcement" cost. That might bump the cost of a ride below $6.80.

Then we can dispense with the fallacy that the metro-rail actually makes any money at all and More people will ride.

Even better - close the whole damned thing, contract with cab companies, and give out taxpayer-supported cab vouchers. Everybody gets point-to-point transportation on demand (which is what we all really want).

At $8.33 a ride, I think the taxpayer needs to shop around for a better deal....