Cold, dead hands: Buffalo to seize guns from families following owners' funerals

[WNYresident]

Cold, dead hands: Buffalo to seize guns from families following owners' funerals

A plan by police in Buffalo, N.Y., to begin confiscating the firearms of legal gun owners within days of their deaths is drawing fire from Second Amendment advocates.

The plan is legal under a longstanding, but rarely enforced state law, but gun rights advocates say, with apologies to onetime NRA spokesman Charlton Heston, it is tantamount to prying firearms - some of which may have substantial monetary or sentimental value - from the cold, dead hands of law-abiding citizens.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/11/14...cmp=latestnews

[4248]

There's also laws(which I brought up before) on the books that state you must have a separate permit for gun powder and it limits how much you can possess. They must be searching all the old archives.

But, I bet there's an exclusion for law enforcement members !

Its only going to get more intrusive - OH I said that before too !

[Linda_D]

Let's be clear here. This only affects guns that are required to be registered, which excludes most long barrel hunting and sporting weapons, and includes primarily pistols. Plain and simple, if you are not the registered owner of the gun(s) in question, then you can't legally possess it(them) until you do the paperwork to get them legally transferred into your name, and that's true whether the current gun owner is alive or dead. Pistol permits are not inheritable.

When the owner dies, registered guns don't have legal ownership unless/until they are sold/given to another permit holder and the paperwork is completed. In some cases, surviving spouses or children may not even know about the gun(s) or how to legally transfer them. In other cases, the persons who inherit the guns may not have a pistol permit because they can't qualify for one. It's a good way for legally purchased guns to become illegal weapons.

Obviously, the Buffalo police think that the problem is serious enough to warrant attention on their part.

[WNYresident]

Obviously, the Buffalo police think that the problem is serious enough to warrant attention on their part.

It's a feel good type move. Just think of the extra man hours the extra time/paper work will create.

[nogods]

It's a feel good type move. Just think of the extra man hours the extra time/paper work will create.

No it is not feel good - it is sensible. We restrict handgun ownership to licensed owners. Just because a licensed owner dies does not mean his brother or wife or son or daughter is qualified to own the handgun. What if the licensed owner was the only non-felon in the household - do you really want the other household members to now have free reign to gain possession of the weapon?

The law is clear - the firearm should be turned into the appropriate law enforcement agency, a fiduciary should be appointed to sell the weapon or transfer it to a qualified beneficiary of the estate.

But there is a much easier solution in Erie County because a handgun can be registered under more than one owner, and the other owner can then take legal possession of the weapon upon the death of the first.

[FMD]

registration leads to confiscation

[4248]

Its a selective enforcement notice - if and when they use this law they will do so selectively.

Some people have collections worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and span the results of a few generations of collectors. How can you state that just because its a handgun it should be confiscated - what if they are curio or relics -

[nogods]

Its a selective enforcement notice - if and when they use this law they will do so selectively.


Some people have collections worth hundreds of thousands of dollars and span the results of a few generations of collectors. How can you state that just because its a handgun it should be confiscated - what if they are curio or relics -

FOXNews BS. There are lots of things that must be turned in to the authorities once a licensed holder dies. This is much ado about nothing.

[4248]

Just for the hell of it - name three things/posessions beside handguns families must surrender when the owner dies ? - Just askin !

[WNYresident]

No it is not feel good - it is sensible.

Fair opinion. People have different opinions.

We restrict handgun ownership to licensed owners. Just because a licensed owner dies does not mean his brother or wife or son or daughter is qualified to own the handgun. What if the licensed owner was the only non-felon in the household - do you really want the other household members to now have free reign to gain possession of the weapon?

The law is clear - the firearm should be turned into the appropriate law enforcement agency, a fiduciary should be appointed to sell the weapon or transfer it to a qualified beneficiary of the estate.

But there is a much easier solution in Erie County because a handgun can be registered under more than one owner, and the other owner can then take legal possession of the weapon upon the death of the first.

Our founding fathers were wise. I know times have changed but the fundamentals of freedom have not.

I see how and why you have your formed opinion but..

Do you really need me to point up the Pen and Teller 2nd amendment video again.

The law is clear

Do you really need me to point up the Pen and Teller 2nd amendment video again. I will.

If you feel not safe in our country because of the gun laws go move over the England. Right? If a property owner isn't happy what they are charged for "services" to live in their home they are told move if they don't like it.

Safe Act II needs to be repealed but I will agree the truly mentality insane should not be allowed various weapons.

[nogods]

Fair opinion. People have different opinions.






Our founding fathers were wise. I know times have changed but the fundamentals of freedom have not.

I see how and why you have your formed opinion but..

Do you really need me to point up the Pen and Teller 2nd amendment video again.

The law is clear

Do you really need me to point up the Pen and Teller 2nd amendment video again. I will.

If you feel not safe in our country because of the gun laws go move over the England. Right? If a property owner isn't happy what they are charged for "services" to live in their home they are told move if they don't like it.

Safe Act II needs to be repealed but I will agree the truly mentality insane should not be allowed various weapons.

Do you really need me to point you to the supreme court opinions again?

Handgun registration is not unconstitutional. I realize that constitutional law may be way over the head of a couple of comedic magicians - but that is why they are comedic magicians and not Supreme Court justices.

Now, we could discuss whether NY should, as a matter of public policy, have any handgun registration whatsoever. I would prefer a system whereby everyone over 18 can purchase and own a firearm unless shown by the state to be incompetent - either mentally, physically, or legally (multiple DWI's or violent felons for example.)

But that has nothing to do whether a registered weapon becomes illegal after the registered owner dies. That happens to be the law now and it is entirely constitutional. At least until Penn and Teller get appointed to the SCOTUS.

[Dan Roman]

So how long has this law been on the books and now someone in BPD got a bug up their ass and decides to start enforcing this? It would be interesting to see who has this task assigned to them, is it a ticket to overtime for a near retiree to pad a pension, or some paper pusher who needs some more work to justify a position? Shouldn't the pistol permit bureau send a letter out to a deceased permit holders family within a certain time of death, that would require someone perusing the death notices or city hall for death certificates. I would think it would be a county function as they issue the permit.

[WNYresident]

Do you really need me to point you to the supreme court opinions again?

Handgun registration is not unconstitutional. I realize that constitutional law may be way over the head of a couple of comedic magicians - but that is why they are comedic magicians and not Supreme Court justices.

Now, we could discuss whether NY should, as a matter of public policy, have any handgun registration whatsoever. I would prefer a system whereby everyone over 18 can purchase and own a firearm unless shown by the state to be incompetent - either mentally, physically, or legally (multiple DWI's or violent felons for example.)

But that has nothing to do whether a registered weapon becomes illegal after the registered owner dies. That happens to be the law now and it is entirely constitutional. At least until Penn and Teller get appointed to the SCOTUS.

Do you really need me to point you to the Founding Fathers opinions again? I know those guys are comedians but they don't seem to have an issue understanding what is written in the 2nd Amendment.

The clinically insane should not be allowed to own something they can hurt others or themselves. With that said we would have to draw a line to what is insane or not.

All it takes to be a Supreme Court Justice is to be appointed by someone who received one more vote than the person they were running against. Right?

http://www.supremecourt.gov/faq.aspx#faqgi2

Are there qualifications to be a Justice? Do you have to be a lawyer or attend law school to be a Supreme Court Justice?

The Constitution does not specify qualifications for Justices such as age, education, profession, or native-born citizenship. A Justice does not have to be a lawyer or a law school graduate, but all Justices have been trained in the law. Many of the 18th and 19th century Justices studied law under a mentor because there were few law schools in the country.

The last Justice to be appointed who did not attend any law school was James F. Byrnes (1941-1942). He did not graduate from high school and taught himself law, passing the bar at the age of 23.
Robert H. Jackson (1941-1954). While Jackson did not attend an undergraduate college, he did study law at Albany Law School in New York. At the time of his graduation, Jackson was only twenty years old and one of the requirements for a law degree was that students must be twenty-one years old. Thus rather than a law degree, Jackson was awarded with a "diploma of graduation." Twenty-nine years later, Albany Law School belatedly presented Jackson with a law degree noting his original graduating class of 1912.

Now to be a comedian you have to have talent

[WNYresident]

I realize that constitutional law may be way over the head of a couple of comedic magicians - but that is why they are comedic magicians and not Supreme Court justices.

I emailed Penn and Teller.

[Chant]

Do you really need me to point you to the supreme court opinions again?

Handgun registration is not unconstitutional. I realize that constitutional law may be way over the head of a couple of comedic magicians - but that is why they are comedic magicians and not Supreme Court justices.

Oh please.... point out where in the Constitution and/or Bill of Rights any firearm registration is constitutional? While Constitutional Law MAY be way over the heads of a couple of comedic magicians, it seems to get constantly confused with Statutory Jurisdiction with almost every lawyer and judge... or maybe I should say, statutory jurisdiction is purposely misrepresented as Constitutional law by them.

Remind us again, what it is we are actually doing when we "register" anything with the government? Oh yes, we are signing ownership of that thing over to the government (of our own free will of course, its not the government's fault that the public isn't aware that's what is actually going on. Nor does the government have a obligation to inform the public.). And in return, our government gives us a sort of "Privilege of Use Title", that "ALLOWS" us to use that thing, but we have to do so according the the rules the government sets.

Why certainly... that is all perfectly Constitutional. Oh wait, no, its not. I don't remember anything about Unilateral Contracts (the terms of Registration) being in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. In fact, I'm pretty sure such action is forbidden of the government under the 2nd and 4th Amendments.
So registration cannot be LAWFUL (meaning Constitutional or Common Law), as it can only exist as LEGAL Corporate Statute in the realm of Statutory Jurisdiction... which makes it what, boys and girls (say it with me)... Contract Law!
And as you know... in Contract Law, the Constitution and Bill of Rights do not exist. Only the terms of the contract apply.

You rascally lawyers and judges trying to trick us again with those contracts where there hasn't been full disclosure of the contract terms to all parties... what's that called again when the common folks do it? Oh yeah... FRAUD!

Now, we could discuss whether NY should, as a matter of public policy, have any handgun registration whatsoever. I would prefer a system whereby everyone over 18 can purchase and own a firearm unless shown by the state to be incompetent - either mentally, physically, or legally (multiple DWI's or violent felons for example.)

While I can almost agree with you here, the "state" has repeatedly shown that it cannot be trusted to decide who, where, and when anyone gets to use their rights. No government entity should have that power. Instead I rather see abuse handled through common law courts. If you are a convicted felon out on parole and you are caught with a firearm, you go back to jail for the rest of your life, period. If you commit a crime using a firearm, 25 years in prison that must be fully served, on top of the sentence the crime itself brings. Kill anyone with a firearm during a crime, automatic death sentence. Doubtful you will get anything like this to deter criminals from using firearms. The courts like their cash cow criminals out on the street drumming up business for them. Its job security and money in the bank for those that run the system.


But that has nothing to do whether a registered weapon becomes illegal after the registered owner dies. That happens to be the law now and it is entirely constitutional. At least until Penn and Teller get appointed to the SCOTUS.

Ah... there those magic words again "register" and "ilLEGAL". Both contract law. Both a scam. And both the furthermost thing from Constitutional as can be.

I shall leave you with a few more magic words, but these words however do exist in the realm of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and are therefore LAWFUL, not LEGAL. Those words are, "...SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED".