Alan Bedenko - SolarCity and its Impact

[WNYresident]

lot has been written in the past week or so about the SolarCity project in South Buffalo. A lot of it has to do with OMG THAT’S LIKE $300k PER JOB. It’s being sold as an excessive investment for dubious return.

Here’s something to consider: the state of New York is not paying a subsidy to SolarCity. Under its contract, SolarCity will create approximately 3,600 brand-new high-paying jobs in Buffalo alone. In order to do that, the state is buying the equipment that SolarCity will use to manufacture its products, and building the factory facility. The state will own it all.

Read more on Alan's blog


Jobs or not I do not believe a business should be handed/subsidize their operation with other tax payers money. I'm waiting to see if Cuomo turns this project into another "authority" of NYS.

If I was going to pick worse case what to do with tax payer money this might be better than other projects because this is manufacturing.

Alan made one valid point.

It’s not just about 3,600 jobs. It’s about the economic activity that each one of those well-paying jobs generates.

What he fails to realize is what is hampering economic activity in the first place. High taxation at all levels of government in NYS.

The high taxation issues we have in NYS has caused far more jobs to leave than the possibility of creating a few thousand jobs handing out tax breaks and/or subsidies. Maybe if government spending was LOWER AT all levels the "State" wouldn't be in this position to begin with. This means really digging into wasteful projects, salary and/or benefit cuts across the board and/or cutting the size of government. The net tax payer should not be funding a jobs program for the politically connected.

Fix the root cause instead of bandaging the symptoms. Giving tax breaks/subsidizes existing business are just band aids.

[nogods]

The high taxation issues we have in NYS has caused far more jobs to leave than the possibility of creating a few thousand jobs handing out tax breaks and/or subsidies. Maybe if government spending was LOWER AT all levels the "State" wouldn't be in this position to begin with. This means really digging into wasteful projects, salary and/or benefit cuts across the board and/or cutting the size of government. The net tax payer should not be funding a jobs program for the politically connected.

Fix the root cause instead of bandaging the symptoms. Giving tax breaks/subsidizes existing business are just band aids.

In the meantime would you rather have all that downstate tax money stay downstate?

Coumo has been spending a lot of down state tax dollars in upstate NY. My theory is he does it because although he doesn't need upstate votes to get elected governor he does need upstate votes to establish viability as a presidential candidate.

He doesn't need to spend money downstate to win those voters so he can take from them and give to us.

While waiting for the downstaters to elect senate and assembly reps that are fiscal conservatives (and remember, cuomo has been more of a fiscal conservative than most of our governors) we might as well take the biggest piece of the pie that we can get.

[WNYresident]

In the meantime would you rather have all that downstate tax money stay downstate?

Coumo has been spending a lot of down state tax dollars in upstate NY. My theory is he does it because although he doesn't need upstate votes to get elected governor he does need upstate votes to establish viability as a presidential candidate.

He doesn't need to spend money downstate to win those voters so he can take from them and give to us.

While waiting for the downstaters to elect senate and assembly reps that are fiscal conservatives (and remember, cuomo has been more of a fiscal conservative than most of our governors) we might as well take the biggest piece of the pie that we can get.

You missed the point I made entirely or I failed to make my point clear.

I would rather have any money spent by the state spent in our community. I do not disagree with your comment of "take the biggest piece of the pie that we can get". I don't believe the state should be using "our" money to pick winners and losers in business. Tax breaks and some discounts on power is one thing but building the plant/equipping it seems a bit much. While they spend money on this to maybe create 3600 jobs, 100's of jobs/people continue to flee the state to this day.

Just look at the gun manufacturers who are planning on leaving because of the action taken by Cuomo. Don't forget to deduct those loses against the jobs created on this project.

[NY The Vampire State]

I wonder what the mouthpiece thinks of all the redacted information these clowns are hiding.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Tax breaks and some discounts on power is one thing but building the plant/equipping it seems a bit much.

What are you basing this off? What are you comparing to that it's too much?


Are you familiar with the Tappan Zee Bridge? NYS is spending north of $3,500,000,000 on the construction. That bridge is going to be built by NYS and 'owned' by NYS. But it's the companies in Manhattan that are going to benefit from it's construction.

Are you familiar with the Second Avenue Subway? NYS is spending north of $2,900,000,000 on the construction of that. This subway is going to be built and managed by an authority but it's the companies in Manhattan that are going to benefit from it's construction.


There are a lot of things wrong with how NYS is run but the funding for Solar City is just a drop in the bucket. The 'Buffalo Billion' while a bit of a scam, is a drop in the bucket. The reason I call it a scam is not due to the amount but how it's being managed. It's essentially a slush fund for Cuomo to buy votes with rather than a fund to be used by the region as the region sees fit.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Interesting comment by Alan on taxes. This is not simple. Simple is saying everyone pays the same amount. That could be 2%, 5% or 10%...that's simple.

We could simplify the tax code tomorrow and the economy would skyrocket. OK, everyone earning over $500,000 pays 35% straight up, regardless of income source – paycheck or capital gains. Anyone making $200 – 500k pays 25% straight-up. Anyone making $100k – 200k pays 17%. 50k – 100k, you pay 10%, and if you earn less than 50k you pay zero. Add a VAT and you’ve just funded universal health care.

The problem with this line of thinking is it's too simple. For starters, putting $500k as the top bracket is a silly. Someone making $220k in Buffalo, which is typical of a C-Level executive these days, would need to make $500k in NYC. That's almost $30k difference. There would need to be several additional brackets going up. Triggers at $1M, $5M and $10M to start with.

But beyond that, the idea that someone earning less than $50k would pay zero is downright insulting. Everyone should pay something. Even if it's the tiniest of fractions...something so that everyone can participate. But the idea that a couple could bring home $99,999 a year and pay zero in taxes is insulting. Hell, someone making $49k a year and no taxes is bad.

Then you have the poverty guidelines that say a family of four making $27,000. Kids are expensive. Children are estimated to cost their parents anywhere from $100,000 to $500,000 from the ages of 1-18. Add in the cost of schools, say $20k a year for K-12 in public schools and you have another $260k in costs that are picked up by taxpayers. Perhaps having multiple children on a low income is not ideal. But in the very least we should not be rewarding it.

I am not talking about punishing those who are poor and having kids, rather, we should be rewarding those who do not have children. If you're a DINK in Amherst, you're paying the same freight as a couple with 1-3 kids but you're not putting any additional costs into the system. You should get something back for that.

This rewarding the wrong side can be applied in many places. From health care to starting a business, we need to start rewarding those who are doing the 'right thing' or 'better thing' than those who are on hard times.

For people who say we shouldn't kick those who are down... I agree. There should be a program where if you make less than say $50K a year you should be able to 'skip' pass on paying taxes for a couple of years until you get back on your feet. If you find yourself doing better but want to purchase back a year, simple refile your taxes and pay the year(s) you skipped.

The idea that some should pay nothing is what makes so many want to kill any tax reform before it gets started. People can talk all they want about the wealthy paying more and they should but everyone needs to pay something.

[WNYresident]

What are you basing this off? What are you comparing to that it's too much?


Are you familiar with the Tappan Zee Bridge? NYS is spending north of $3,500,000,000 on the construction. That bridge is going to be built by NYS and 'owned' by NYS. But it's the companies in Manhattan that are going to benefit from it's construction.

Are you familiar with the Second Avenue Subway? NYS is spending north of $2,900,000,000 on the construction of that. This subway is going to be built and managed by an authority but it's the companies in Manhattan that are going to benefit from it's construction.


There are a lot of things wrong with how NYS is run but the funding for Solar City is just a drop in the bucket. The 'Buffalo Billion' while a bit of a scam, is a drop in the bucket. The reason I call it a scam is not due to the amount but how it's being managed. It's essentially a slush fund for Cuomo to buy votes with rather than a fund to be used by the region as the region sees fit.

I'm not really comparing it to anything. Just the principle behind the idea of having tax payers cover the cost of someone's business. I don't care how they "word" it or they say "who owns the solar manufacturing plant". The tax payer is funding someone's business.

The two items you pointed out really don't compare to a "manufacturing plant". One is a bridge and the other is a subway. I don't know the details so I don't know why they wouldn't be ran by either the NYS transportation department versus giving the contract to a politically connected business.

Everything is a "drop in the bucket" but that doesn't justify anything.

A bit of a scam? You and I are young enough to see how this is going to play out. Something is shady seeing all the books are not open to the public.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I'm not really comparing it to anything. Just the principle behind the idea of having tax payers cover the cost of someone's business. I don't care how they "word" it or they say "who owns the solar manufacturing plant". The tax payer is funding someone's business.

The cost of someone's business is vast. You need roads for people to get to and from your store. That's a cost of your business whether you pay it or not.

It's a scale thing and honestly scale is something that I feel you don't always grasp. Putting in road work is on a small scale when you apply it to all of the businesses on that road. In return, those businesses are not huge employers. Building a factory like this is just a larger scale of the same thing. Also has much larger returns.

The two items you pointed out really don't compare to a "manufacturing plant". One is a bridge and the other is a subway. I don't know the details so I don't know why they wouldn't be ran by either the NYS transportation department versus giving the contract to a politically connected business.

It's infrastructure.

[4248]

The amount of tax dollars being spent to buy equipment and construct a facility is but a fraction of what tax payers contribute - to the state and federal tax load.

We are getting pennies on the dollar - a hand full of jobs that will cost way more than they will contribute to our local economy.

If the courts rule against this company - we will once again have bought a pig in a poke - but as Nogods points out - its all about buying votes.

This "Billion for Buffalo" scam is slowly being peeled open - its a manipulation of our own money. Its another hand out to big business - one that's already sucked up millions illegally in federal tax dollars through phony billing.

Figures Gov.Cuom would shut down the Ethics Committee and hook up with this bunch. Any thing to pave his way to the White House - while buying votes for local Dems so they can pass millions in PAC Fund dollars up hill.

Business as usual !

[NY The Vampire State]

Where's the Republican party?

[4248]

The Republicans aren't in anyway responsible for Gov.Cuomo's back door media grab, tax funded deals.
Whats your point !

This same solar company has mades its way into Federaly funded deals - so it would appear these people are vested in the National Dem Level bail outs and contract sweeteners.

It would be interesting to see their campaign disclosure statements !

But this is all just party of the "Winner take all Party Game" - so the Dems are dancing and the rest of us tax payers are just sore losers whining - right Nogods ! ?