Guess what I did tonite...and SAW first hand ACLU

[WNYresident]

They had Pat Buchanan debate Nadine Strossen at Daemen College.

It was based on Civil Liberties and National Security: Post 9/11

It was good to see first hand how "lefty" a mindset can get.

Pat Buchanan actually was very pleasant to listen to. Logical explanation of why things are done in some cases.

There must of been at least 430 people. They had chairs laid out in a 10 X 18 chairs 2 times with about 20 chairs along the back. 10 chairs X 18 chairs = 180 people X 2 = 360 people + 20 people = 380 people minimum.

Outside of that room there must of been at least another 50 chairs pointed at a wide screen shot of the stage. So that's 50 or so more people + 380 people = 430 people at least. All the chairs were filled amd there were people standing too. I was curious to see how many people wanted to listen to these two debate.

The ACLU can do more harm to the USA than good in some cases now that I heard her speak. She really took things to the extreme while leaving various details out and Pat would say exactly what the details were. He made sense. It was like she was taking things out of context to make a point.

One example was...

Wire tapping people who are physcially talking to someone from the al quiada (Sp.) group from within the USA. That was his example but she's trying to say they are going to tap anyones phone just to listen to see if they can find anything at all just for the hell of it. I see her point but I don't think that's what they would do and why even bother.

Someone at the event also said the ACLU got santa clause out of macy's department store last year? Could that be true?

[Ragin]

I don't know if they actually removed Santa ... however, I know there was talk about doing so

[leets]

Still...Why can't they just get a warrent from the rubber stamp court that was set up for this kind of thing. Did he explain that? And Oh....Buchanan is not extremist???

[buffy]

The ACLU can do more harm to the USA than good in some cases now that I heard her speak. She really took things to the extreme while leaving various details out and Pat would say exactly what the details were. He made sense. It was like she was taking things out of context to make a point.

IMO, the ACLU thinks this is a perfect world; that all people are nice and play fair. Buchanon said some conflicting things though and he has a big brother mentality

[eal]

The ACLU exists to make sure that the principles inherent in the Constitution and Bill of Rights are upheld. I couldn't care less about Santa, but I would want someone to have a warrant before searching my house or tapping my phone. It's illegal not to. Thank god the ACLU is here to challenge the increasing number of people who somehow still think it's OK.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

IMO, the ACLU thinks this is a perfect world; that all people are nice and play fair. Buchanon said some conflicting things though and he has a big brother mentality

I don't think the ACLU thinks we live in a perfect world. Far from it. The ACLU does our dirty work. It protects the constitution from popular passions -- from people who react, not think. Someone needs to do it, but because it flies in the face of popular tastes, the ACLU is hated.

Sometimes the ACLU even galls me. But I remind myself that the victim of popular passions could one day be, and, actually, at one time was, me. A female. Remember when women couldn't vote?

When they were less than human, and could be treated as such?


The ACLU does a lot of unpopular things -- and thank god for that.

[colossus27]

The ACLU exists to make sure that the principles inherent in the Constitution and Bill of Rights are upheld.

Provided it fits their agenda or public perception.

Where were they when NC State mandated incoming freshmen read the Koran in 2001?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

The ACLU exists to make sure that the principles inherent in the Constitution and Bill of Rights are upheld. I couldn't care less about Santa, but I would want someone to have a warrant before searching my house or tapping my phone. It's illegal not to. Thank god the ACLU is here to challenge the increasing number of people who somehow still think it's OK.

Hooray! My feelings exactly. I'm a card carrying member, and I think everyone should be. You may not like what the ACLU has to say today,but it is entirely possible that you will value its advocacy one day soon.

The ACLU does not care about politics. Staying true to the constitution is its only goal. WE need that, because we are much too quick to trample our rights for the sake of a quick fix.

No one ever said Democracy would be easy......

[colossus27]

The ACLU does not care about politics. Staying true to the constitution is its only goal.

No one ever said Democracy would be easy......

I applaud the ACLU when they're doing something I agree with. But to say they do not care about politics is a dangerously idealistic point to take.

[buffy]

You may not like what the ACLU has to say today,but it is entirely possible that you will value its advocacy one day soon.

Total: I wish you attended the debate so that my comments made more sense... the debate centered on what res said:

Wire tapping people who are physcially talking to someone from the al quida (Sp.) group from within the USA. That was his example but she's trying to say they are going to tap anyones phone just to listen to see if they can find anything at all just for the hell of it. I see her point but I don't think that's what they would do and why even bother.

the Patriat Act has been tweaked and rewritten to protect the status quo ordinary law abiding american citizen; that said, america can't be STUPID and let our Bill of Rights inadvertently prevent quick action against suspected terrorists

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Provided it fits their agenda or public perception.

Where were they when NC State mandated incoming freshmen read the Koran in 2001?

Huh? Can you post a link explaining the NC thing?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I applaud the ACLU when they're doing something I agree with. But to say they do not care about politics is a dangerously idealistic point to take.

Can you give us examples of when the ACLU did something that was not about the constitution and/or our freedoms?

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Total: I wish you attended the debate so that my comments made more sense... the debate centered on what res said:

the Patriat Act has been tweaked and rewritten to protect the status quo ordinary law abiding american citizen; that said, america can't be STUPID and let our Bill of Rights inadvertently prevent quick action against suspected terrorists

Really?

How do you know that?

[buffy]

it's been reported total, do you need me to run the cite down for you? isn't it common knowledge amonst those who keep appraised of such things? If you had attended last night you would have heard YOUR ACLU President debate PB on the precedures undertaken by Congress... the deliberations included chief representatives of both parties while ammending the Patriat Act.

[WNYresident]

You had to be there to listen to Nadine speak. EVERY she basically said was over generalizations if items.

I think her mind set is everyone will play fair. Good example it torture.

I think Pat gave an example of "you have a nuclear bomb somewhere in NYC and you caught someone involved who might know where it is" IT's gonna blow soon. What would you do? Protect his rights and let a million people get evaporated or get the info out of him.


I should of posed a question directly to her.

5 men kidnapped your family and said in 20 days they will behead one family member at a time.

19 days later they catch 2 men which were involved in the kidnapping who might know where her family is.

Do you think she would protect thier rights against torture or would she want the information to save her family knowing these 2 men were involved in the kidnapping.