Amherst to save $$$$by using employees for flood survey

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Here is what puzzles me about the decision to use town staff for Amherst's survey of flood prone areas.

Does Amherst town staff actually have the expertise to handle this job? I realize there is better technology now to help, and that's good. But will that make a significant difference?

And was this work handled by outside consultants in the past?

I'm wondering because this survey seems crucial to future development plans.



AMHERST
Flood survey being done by town staff
By THOMAS J. DOLAN
News Staff Reporter
4/21/2006

Amherst officials expect to save "hundreds of thousands of dollars" by using town employees to study storm drainage and flooding problems instead using outside contractors for the job, Supervisor Satish B. Mohan said this week.
Mohan said the study will use Amherst's computerized mapping system and the expertise of employees in four town departments.

"We have all these people who have never been asked to do this before," he said.

Officials from the town's building, planning, engineering and highway departments were expected to take their first look today at a series of flood planning maps created using the town's computerized mapping system.

If all goes as expected, the town should be able to complete a master drainage plan later this year, allowing private contractors to resume developments in flood-prone areas.

Reacting to residents' complaints about basement damage and flooded yards, Town Board members have voted for a six-month moratorium on building in the floodplain to allow time for the study. The measure will not become law until after a public hearing.

Mohan wanted to use town employees and the in-house database, said Roy Wixson, assistant to the supervisor.

"What they're doing is assembling the data from various departments and crosstalking across the department lines in ways they did not do before," Wixson said.

Officials said the town's information technology department is using the information to create maps to show flooding problems and suggest drainage improvements.

"This gives them information about where problems are, and how to overcome them. The whole idea is how to manage storm water that comes across the Amherst flood plains," Wixson said.

The town then will be able to tell a developer what needs to be done to build on a site, "with an overall idea of how the project interacts with the whole of the town," Wixson said.

"Then, they and the town can plan intelligently," he said.

[Linda_D]

Why are outside "consultants" always assumed to know more than the guys on staff who have been doing this work for years??? Most technical consulting firms have a handful of experienced people at the top and lots of newbies at the bottom.

The US/NYS have done the arerial flood plain mapping that towns need to do this kind of work, so all they have to do is download it into into their planning databases. The town has the engineers, the planners, and others on staff who know how to do the math, use the computer software, and recognize drainage/floodways. Moreover, these people are very familiar with the specific area.

Engineering is Mr Mohan's field of expertise, so I think he can judge the expertise that the staff members have in this matter (and it is an engineering matter, btw).

Keep in mind that it could take six months just getting an RFP written, replies solicitted, and a bid accepted (ie, consulting firm selected) while the town staff could have the study done in that time. The town is saving money on the bidding and selecting costs and on the contract itself. Plus, builders and contractors could be up and running on their projects again at least a half-year sooner, bringing in more money to the town coffers through permit fees, taxes, etc

[AmherstSucks]

Too bad he doesn't remain consistent in his philosophy of using in-house talent. I have to wonder how much $$ he's going to waste on outside help for contract negotiations. Particularly those contracts that will be settled through arbitration anyway.

[Dvoakley]

If in-house employees are being used, I wonder what they were doing before this assignment? If they have all this extra time to do a flood plain survey, how did they fill their work hours before?

[etc]

I know of one employee who has been given this assignment by Mohan. He already has full time work assigned to him in his department. He now must put his regular work on hold, in order to contribute to the flood study. Other workers must pick up the work this employee cannot do. So, contrary to some remarks on this site concerning lazy and corrupt Town employees, a whole department is taking on extra work.

[Greener Pastures]

Why are outside "consultants" always assumed to know more than the guys on staff who have been doing this work for years??? Most technical consulting firms have a handful of experienced people at the top and lots of newbies at the bottom.

The US/NYS have done the arerial flood plain mapping that towns need to do this kind of work, so all they have to do is download it into into their planning databases. The town has the engineers, the planners, and others on staff who know how to do the math, use the computer software, and recognize drainage/floodways. Moreover, these people are very familiar with the specific area.

Engineering is Mr Mohan's field of expertise, so I think he can judge the expertise that the staff members have in this matter (and it is an engineering matter, btw).

Keep in mind that it could take six months just getting an RFP written, replies solicitted, and a bid accepted (ie, consulting firm selected) while the town staff could have the study done in that time. The town is saving money on the bidding and selecting costs and on the contract itself. Plus, builders and contractors could be up and running on their projects again at least a half-year sooner, bringing in more money to the town coffers through permit fees, taxes, etc

Most of the Amherst employees have tribal knowledge gained through on-the-job-training (OJT) in their positions. Amherst would not be expected to have personnel on staff that are properly educated in such evaluations. The people that may be very good at building inspections, cleaning drainage ditches & sewers, paving roads, plowing snow will have a steep learing curve in evaluating the adequacy of flood control systems. Amherst has a long history of flood problems, which have not been addressed by past adminstrations nor the employees. If it hadn't been for the Corp of Engineers, the Maple/Forest area to W. Klein Rd would still be flooding.

Flood studies are a very specialized field normally done by professional engineers using elevations (from surveyors), flood modeling software and extensive hydraulic calculations for rainwater flows through drainage piping. I'd suggest that if Mohan is supervising the flood studies, he's not doing his job as Town Supervisor. For liabaility reasons, it would be a wise decision to hire an Engineering Firm that specializes in such work. If it makes people more comfortable to avoid local politcal cronies & contributors, there are quaified engineers up & down the East Coast that could be effective.

[AmherstSucks]

For all we know, the town may have one of the greatest flood surveyors in the state. Who knows for sure, but the town definately has a few gems here and there that the public are probably not aware of. Spending more money is not a guarantee that you'll get a better survey, BUT I would certainly say that this is not something where the "low bid" mentality is appropriate.

IF town employees aren't properly trained, equipped or whatever, it would seem that maybe they would be most qualified to recommend someone who would do the job right.

On the one hand it's nice to see the supervisor finally think about saving money rather than spend more of it, but on the other hand I don't trust this frustrated civil engineer to do what's best for the town in the long run.

[diogenes]

If in-house employees are being used, I wonder what they were doing before this assignment? If they have all this extra time to do a flood plain survey, how did they fill their work hours before?

DV, etc is correct. They are just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Their regular work is suffering, and will began to pile up. Then you will see service diminish in many departments.
Hope the Mohanites are watching!
Another big "savings"!!!
Remember the last lines in "The Bridge on the River Kwai".........madness......madness!!

[Smiley]

[QUOTE=AmherstSucks]IF town employees aren't properly trained, equipped or whatever, it would seem that maybe they would be most qualified to recommend someone who would do the job right.[QUOTE]

The only problem here is that the person in the Supervisors seat does not listen to town employees recomendations regarding anything. He has made it perfectly clear that it's his way or the highway and if this is what he wants then this is the way it will be. I guess that's why this is such a mystery, Having town employees do it?

[HDavis]

What is required is coordinated communications among the various disciplines that already exist among some of the very talented and skilled people we already have in Engineering, Building, Plumbing, Highway and Planning.
The necessary data for such a study already exists:
FEMA flood maps in the Building and Plumbing departments, creek and ditch drainage maps in Highway, potential as-built site plans in Planning.

Communications for the most part of the last decade has been by memo at best. During the years of the previous administration, the general mood had become one of Divide-and-conquer -- becoming less and less conducive for inter departmental-dialog.

Looks to me that things are starting to change a bit now that the bad fruit is being shaken from the trees.