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Thread: Realistic school consolidation in WNY

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Realistic school consolidation in WNY

    This quote is from the Lakeshore enrollment thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by boomeriam
    Here is another thought, Is there another school system Lake shore can merge with to save money so not to hit the taxpayer with a hike?
    School consolidation is one of the "silver bullets" proposed by "regionalism" proponents, especially those who have this pipe dream of combining all Erie County districts into one single "super district". I call this a pipe dream because larger doesn't necessarily mean better, as witness Buffalo, WNY's largest district, which is top-heavy with highly-paid bureaucrats in City Hall and which shortchanges students on educational programs (because there's allegedly "no money" for teachers and supplies).

    Actual consolidation of school districts should look at several issues. One, obviously, is proximity but keep in mind that school districts in NYS are not limited to political boundaries like towns, cities or even counties. In fact, many school districts spill over into other political jurisdictions. Another is school "cultures" which might limit whether schools -- administration, staff, and students -- can combine successfully. Third is the physical size of the current district; some are already quite large and combining them with another district might not save any money because of increased transportation costs.

    The most recent school district consolidations in WNY were the creation of Chautauqua Lake Central (Chautauqua Central and Mayville Central) and Cattaraugus-Little Valley Central. CL has beautiful new buildings, but there has been some real issues there because the district now includes a spectrum of students from very, very wealthy suburban and ex-urban families to very poor rural families.

    Catt-LV hasn't had those kinds of issues, but it has had issues about administration, including the selection of a site for a new school. There have been some nasty accusations made about the siting for a new school, and those accusations and general unhappiness with the school site resulted in a defeat for building a new school. Currently, junior and senior high students from the LV part of the district are bused to the former Catt JR-SR HS which is overcrowded and the LV elementary students are still in the local LV elementary school. New plans call for the Catt JR-SR HS to be renovated and expanded.

    My point is that it is not a simple or easy task to combine school districts, and it needs to be done carefully and with an eye out for possible consequences.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    School districts in Southern Erie County

    The Lakeshore Central includes mainly the towns of Evans and Brant and includes the village of Angola. North of it is Frontier Central (Hamburg) and possibly Hamburg Central (although I think this district runs further east). To the east of it are Eden and North Collins SDs. South of it is Silver Creek in Chautauqua County. It is primarily a suburban/exurban district with most students being middle income, but with fewer upper income students than Frontier or Eden. It also probably has more lower income students than either of those districts, especially the children of farm workers, many of whom come from non-English speaking homes. LCSD is probably most like North Collins CSD which is starting to become attractive to suburbanites and exurbanites from the South Buffalo, Blaisdell, Hamburg areas.

    The problem with combining outlying suburban and rural districts in southern Erie County (and all of Chautuaqua and Cattaraugus counties)that are already centralized is that they already cover large areas. What's saved from consolidation is often lost in increased transportation costs.

    Perhaps a better situation than "consolidation" is "reorganization". Maybe the 8 school districts in southern Erie and northern Chautauqua and Cattaraugus counties (Lakeshore, Frontier, Hamburg, Springville, Eden, North Collins, Silver Creek, Gowanda) that are fairly close together could sit down together and divide themselves up into 5 or 6 new districts. For example, perhaps Lakeshore might be divided among Silver Creek, Frontier, and Eden and maybe North Collins would be divided among Eden, Hamburg, and Gowanda or among Eden, Springville, and Gowanda.

    Another possibility might be for some of these schools to consolidate their administrations but leave their school district boundaries "as is". This would be especially true because of the high cost of top district administrators. For example, Frontier and Hamburg are fairly close together, but both districts are large in area and consolidation would create a district that stretched from the boundaries of Lackawana out to the Boston hills. Perhaps a central administration could cut administrative costs, and perhaps a process of "sharing" teachers could be worked out. Perhaps the same scenario could work for Gowanda/Springville or Lakeshore/Silver Creek or Eden/North Collins or other combinations: Gowanda/Lakeshore/North Collins or Springville/Hamburg/Eden, etc.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    It's hard to imagine any school consolidations occurring until the overall population just ages so much that people w/o kids in school become the overwhelming majority.

    The population is aging, but right now -- even with mostly stagnant or dropping enrollment -- the percentage of those under 18 is about 25 percent. That means there are a good many parents out there who aren't likely to support consolidation, no matter now financially struggling their district is.

    I realize these are broad generalizations. But right now, the folks most likely to show up to vote in school elections are those with kids in the district schools. Older voters show up too, but there numbers aren't as large.

    Here is a link to the census showing the age break down for Erie County communities. Just something interesting to look at.

    http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...2&-format=CO-2

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    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    This quote is from the Lakeshore enrollment thread.


    School consolidation is one of the "silver bullets" proposed by "regionalism" proponents, especially those who have this pipe dream of combining all Erie County districts into one single "super district". I call this a pipe dream because larger doesn't necessarily mean better, as witness Buffalo, WNY's largest district, which is top-heavy with highly-paid bureaucrats in City Hall and which shortchanges students on educational programs (because there's allegedly "no money" for teachers and supplies).
    Gotta agree with this. Rushford and Cuba merged...and the school taxes are utterly insane now.

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    Member steven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    The most recent school district consolidations in WNY were the creation of Chautauqua Lake Central (Chautauqua Central and Mayville Central) and Cattaraugus-Little Valley Central. CL has beautiful new buildings, but there has been some real issues there because the district now includes a spectrum of students from very, very wealthy suburban and ex-urban families to very poor rural families.
    what kind of probelms did this cause linda?
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven
    what kind of probelms did this cause linda?
    In Chautuaqua Lake there's been considerable friction among students because of the disparity in wealth and life-style. Schools, like companies, have different "cultures", and those have not mixed well, especially among the older students who have already formed their cliques. If this had been one school district all along, it might not have been such a problem because kids would have sorted themselves out at earlier ages.

    When I went to Gowanda Central back in the 1960s, it was in the end stages of initial centralization and still had local schools in Collins, Dayton, and Perrysburg that were being phased out. The "Dayton" kids were generally considered "farmers" (our equivalent of "trailer trash" or "rednecks") because this was a more rural area (you had to be a brave person to befriend a "farmer" back then), and the "Townies" looked down on everybody who lived out in the country, but especially on the Indian kids from the Catt Reservation (surprisingly, that racial component was less important when I went to school than later when my youngest brother was there). It's all part of that complex web of adolescent society that forms in junior and senior high schools.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Member steven's Avatar
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    amazing, Thanks for the info linda
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linda_D
    In Chautuaqua Lake there's been considerable friction among students because of the disparity in wealth and life-style. Schools, like companies, have different "cultures", and those have not mixed well, especially among the older students who have already formed their cliques. If this had been one school district all along, it might not have been such a problem because kids would have sorted themselves out at earlier ages.

    When I went to Gowanda Central back in the 1960s, it was in the end stages of initial centralization and still had local schools in Collins, Dayton, and Perrysburg that were being phased out. The "Dayton" kids were generally considered "farmers" (our equivalent of "trailer trash" or "rednecks") because this was a more rural area (you had to be a brave person to befriend a "farmer" back then), and the "Townies" looked down on everybody who lived out in the country, but especially on the Indian kids from the Catt Reservation (surprisingly, that racial component was less important when I went to school than later when my youngest brother was there). It's all part of that complex web of adolescent society that forms in junior and senior high schools.
    Whose in charge the adolesecent little P pots or the Adults.If you went to school in the 60s you know how it went.Teachers could kick your ass and not get sued. Consolidate now I am sick of paying the freight.

    C.A.S.T.
    Citizens Against School Taxes

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Whose in charge the adolesecent little P pots or the Adults.If you went to school in the 60s you know how it went.Teachers could kick your ass and not get sued.

    YES...

    Bring paddles back. Fear of being paddled does work.

    To all the parents that say "Oh don't touch my kid". Well if they weren't piss pots or disrespectful to others that might carry wieght.

    OOOHH their self esteem!... A crack on the ass won't hurt that. AND the benefits far exceed the possible self esteem issues. Granted it may affect one or two out of THOUSANDS but you know what? It's life.

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    Member TheRightView's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    YES...

    Bring paddles back. Fear of being paddled does work.

    To all the parents that say "Oh don't touch my kid". Well if they weren't piss pots or disrespectful to others that might carry wieght.

    OOOHH their self esteem!... A crack on the ass won't hurt that. AND the benefits far exceed the possible self esteem issues. Granted it may affect one or two out of THOUSANDS but you know what? It's life.

    Only one problem, ACLU.
    "All government, -indeed, every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue and every prudent act,- is founded on compromise..." -Edmund Burke
    A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.
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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRightView
    Only one problem, ACLU.
    So?

    http://www.aclu.org/

    We must preserve the protections and the checks and balances in the Constitution against government abuses of power that violate our fundamental values.
    A crack on the ass of some pisspot will teach them some fundamental values.

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    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/youth...s20060413.html

    Did the ACLU go after that school that took down the american flag when the invading mexicans put thier flag up?

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    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    YES...

    Bring paddles back. Fear of being paddled does work.

    To all the parents that say "Oh don't touch my kid". Well if they weren't piss pots or disrespectful to others that might carry wieght.

    OOOHH their self esteem!... A crack on the ass won't hurt that. AND the benefits far exceed the possible self esteem issues. Granted it may affect one or two out of THOUSANDS but you know what? It's life.

    Spot on old boy. I know in my school being bounced off a locker was a great attitude ajuster. If you went home and told your father you got it worse.Look at our generation vs the new generation.I would never speak to an adult the way these little freaks do now. Bring back the draft that changed a lot of bullies views on life. Oh and the ACLU can kiss my independent I do it my way ass

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    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgoodsp466
    Whose in charge the adolesecent little P pots or the Adults.If you went to school in the 60s you know how it went.Teachers could kick your ass and not get sued. Consolidate now I am sick of paying the freight.

    C.A.S.T.
    Citizens Against School Taxes
    Yeah, you're a great advertisement for corporal punishment in public schools.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Barden’s right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

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    Member colossus27's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WNYresident
    http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/youth...s20060413.html

    Did the ACLU go after that school that took down the american flag when the invading mexicans put thier flag up?
    Nope. And they didn't go after NC State in October 2001 when they mandated that freshman read the Koran. Despite my athiest leanings, I'll wager if they were required to read the King James Bible there would be anarchy in the streets....

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