absentee rate in erie county

[jaden316]

In the interest if full disclosure, let me begin by saying that I am an Erie County employee. The article that I read in the Buffalo News about the absentee rate in accurate. However, the follow up posted on this website was unbelievable. In my office, there is at least one person calling in "sick" a week, sometimes more. If a person sneezes in the open, it is almost guaranteed that someone will call in the next day saying they they must have caught whatever was going around the office. The article alluded to the fact that Erie County workers are depressed. I will tell you that this is the one of the best jobs that I have ever had in terms of pay and perks. Lots of time off for holidays and personal time, great hours, generally good pay, in addition to 10 sick days a year. When I look around my office I don't see depression, I see laziness. This is the only job I have ever had where people walk around the office in slippers and what appear to be pajama bottoms! If people are so depressed that they need to take time off, perhaps they should think about quitting their jobs and applying for disability. I know of many out of work Erie County residents that would be more than happy to take their place. And one last note: Erie County allows for 10 sick days a year. Perhaps if they cut that down to 5 a year, that would solve the problem. I think that people use that just because they are there to use.

[WNYresident]

This is what we need. Real facts from the inside. Thank you.

We only hear one story and think it's truth. We can't form a plan when the facts are skewed.

I have seen a lot of goverment employees in general that are happy seeing they are pay well and above average perks compared to rest of us. But then again we hear rumors of no shows, laziness, overtime abuse etc.

In stead of taking thier salary as a blessing they take it as they are entitled to it and that they earned it. Earned it compard to who? Earned it like someones cousin who also got a patronage job and sits at a desk also?

THere's nothing wrong with wearing slippers at work either. As long as you get the job done and done within a normal time.

Yes laziness.... and we pay for it.

[tomac]

Originally posted by jaden316
In the interest if full disclosure, let me begin by saying that I am an Erie County employee. The article that I read in the Buffalo News about the absentee rate in accurate. However, the follow up posted on this website was unbelievable. In my office, there is at least one person calling in "sick" a week, sometimes more. If a person sneezes in the open, it is almost guaranteed that someone will call in the next day saying they they must have caught whatever was going around the office. The article alluded to the fact that Erie County workers are depressed. I will tell you that this is the one of the best jobs that I have ever had in terms of pay and perks. Lots of time off for holidays and personal time, great hours, generally good pay, in addition to 10 sick days a year. When I look around my office I don't see depression, I see laziness. This is the only job I have ever had where people walk around the office in slippers and what appear to be pajama bottoms! If people are so depressed that they need to take time off, perhaps they should think about quitting their jobs and applying for disability. I know of many out of work Erie County residents that would be more than happy to take their place. And one last note: Erie County allows for 10 sick days a year. Perhaps if they cut that down to 5 a year, that would solve the problem. I think that people use that just because they are there to use.

I don't want to call you a liar but I DO NOT believe that you are really a County employee. Otherwise you'd know that you get 15 sick days per year (4.62 hours every two weeks on your timesheet)

Also, I've worked in the Rath Building and out "in the field". When I was working outside, I almost never called in sick, but in the Rath Building its easy to catch something. There's no moisture in the air (we tried putting small buckets of water on the heaters to evaporate, but Buildings & Grounds made us remove them). The air is recycled, they haven't opened the air conditioning vents since Ed Umiker was Public Works Comissioner (circa 1980?) so there's a lot of bad stuff in there as well.

Add to the fact that I have NEVER seen anyone in Highways (or Public Works, for that matter) wear slippers at work, even in the winter when you come to work in heavy boots. What department do YOU claim to work in? I would like to come down and see this for myself.

This sounds like one of Joel's stooges trying to make hard-working people look bad.....

[Curmudgeon]

Frpm the Bflo news...
...The review, which excluded long-term illnesses, showed that Buffalo city workers, on average, rack up 11 sick days per year, nearly triple the national rate of 4.1 days. ..


This sounds like one of Joel's stooges trying to make hard-working people look bad.....
No need to cite the "conspiracy of Joel" on this one - It's the employees that are making themselves look bad. 11 days vs. 4.1 - what else is there to say?

[jaden316]

I hate to break it to you, but I really am an Erie County employee. I work for a division of Senior Services. I do not work in the Rath Building, but rather a satellite building. However, I do have friends that work in the Rath Building for Senior Services who reported to me that last year, while the Senior Services main office in the Rath Building was getting an overhaul, the absentee rate was at its highest. Employees were using any excuse - paint fumes, dust, the smell of the rug glue - to miss work. This might have been more credible if it wasn't the same people who will use any excuse to miss work. These same fumes, dust, smells didn't seem to effect the people who are faithfully at their desks on a daily basis. I know that this is not the only division of Erie County workers that do this. Take the example cited in the original Buffalo News piece where it talked about how many people took off the Monday after the Bills games. We had a woman in our department that without fail called off the Monday after a later afternoon Bills game. In fact, it was kind of a running joke in the office. As to the 15 sick days off, we accrue 10 sick days and 5 personal days for a total of 15. Our vacation time if accrued at a percentage rate that is based on seniority.

[tomac]

Originally posted by jaden316
I hate to break it to you, but I really am an Erie County employee. I work for a division of Senior Services. I do not work in the Rath Building, but rather a satellite building. However, I do have friends that work in the Rath Building for Senior Services who reported to me that last year, while the Senior Services main office in the Rath Building was getting an overhaul, the absentee rate was at its highest. Employees were using any excuse - paint fumes, dust, the smell of the rug glue - to miss work. This might have been more credible if it wasn't the same people who will use any excuse to miss work. These same fumes, dust, smells didn't seem to effect the people who are faithfully at their desks on a daily basis. I know that this is not the only division of Erie County workers that do this. Take the example cited in the original Buffalo News piece where it talked about how many people took off the Monday after the Bills games. We had a woman in our department that without fail called off the Monday after a later afternoon Bills game. In fact, it was kind of a running joke in the office. As to the 15 sick days off, we accrue 10 sick days and 5 personal days for a total of 15. Our vacation time if accrued at a percentage rate that is based on seniority.

All right, this is more like it. From all employees (except me) are sick leave abusers, it has become some are. There are always a couple of percentage points of workers who abuse the system. We had a guy in Public Works who took off every other week during the summer to go to the beach. He'd have a couple of different bosses sign his forms. When the bosses caught up with him on that, the next year he took off every Friday and Monday, again having different bosses sign his forms. He was NOT the Norm. For every ONE who abuses the system, you have many who play by the rules.
As to the amounts of sick and Personal Leave, check you contract, in Public Works, the White Collar contract calls for fifteen days of Sick Leave and Four days of Personal Leave, with Vacation to be increased by the time that you have in the system.
Personal Note to Crumugion: We got these days off back in the days when the County didn't have the money to give us an equitable pay raise. Was Sick Time that important to me? No, when I left, I had about three weeks that I gave back to the County as UNUSED, the rest going to my Health Insurance. (Health Insurance monies were taken in six-week blocks to pay for one month of insurance until it was used up)
Time off can be nice, I'll grant you, but it has NEVER put as much as one slice of bread on the table.

[Curmudgeon]

There are always a couple of percentage points of workers who abuse the system.
He was NOT the Norm.
11 days vs. 4.1? I think that's more than a "couple of percentage points". Sounds like the norm to me.


We got these days off back in the days when the County didn't have the money to give us an equitable pay raise.
Where is the written documentation on this policy? When was it approved that workers could fake being sick because they felt they wern't being paid enough? What a bunch of complete Bulls**t!
I don't think my employer is paying me enough. Rather than quit, do you think I should start pilfering and stealing?

Time to get rid of the "back in the days" thinking.

[sbGUY27]

Why would the county give sickdays and not /instead of extra vacation? That would make more sense for wage compensation.

[tomac]

Originally posted by sbGUY27
Why would the county give sickdays and not /instead of extra vacation? That would make more sense for wage compensation.

Political Public Relations. Back when I started (1970) we had the current vacation allotment:
2 weeks to start
3 weeks after 2 years
4 weeks after 10 years
5 weeks after 17 years
6 weeks after 25 years
Back then, you got your new batch of vacation on your anniversary date and had to use it by the end of the year (this always went over real well with the guys who were hired on, say, 20 December -- you'd have eleven days available to use up to 30 days of vacation).
Later, it was changed to use it in the year from anniversary date to the next anniversary date. At this point it was all "use it or lose it". Trust me, a LOT of vacation time went unclaimed.
With this much vacation already in place, it was not politically expedient to give even more.
Back then, we received 3 days of Personal Leave. This was upgraded in the 1980s to 4 days.
Back then, we received 3 weeks (fifteen days) of Sick leave as well.
Now here's the deal, Sick Time is supposed to be for illness, yourself or someone in your family (immediate family plus your parents, if still alive). People using Sick Time in lieu of Vacation were supposed to be disiplined (and back then were, but it depended on the management [and their relationship with the employee -- often times, "friends of the boss would get away with murder while others got punished])
Personal Leave was for just that, Personal issues. But you generally had to give at least 24 hours notice (again, depending on who you were)
Vacation was granted on an "as needed" basis. That means, if you were doing a project that your boss felt no one but you could do, you didn't get your vacation, at least not when you wanted it.
For instance, we had a guy in our office (Highways) who worked as an inspector on a construction site. He put in for vacation during the summer to take his family to Florida (it would have been the last chance before his oldest daughter went away to college). He was turned down as "it was necessary for him to be on the construction site". He was allowed to take the vacation later in the year, in September (when his daughter was already in school). Another employee always took his vacation from Christmas until it ran out (early February by the time he hit six weeks). He spent the time in his garage workshop, puttering. The management NEVER gave hime a hard time about taking off, nothing was going on in January.
As I said earlier, "friends" of certain bosses could (and did) get their vacation whenever they wanted and abused the system royally.
Here's another point; back in 1972 Milhouse the Republican declared that anyone who worked more than a forty hour week deserved overtime. The County's reply to that was "that doesn't include County Workers". Before 1972, County employees were "paid" in Compensory Time (hour for hour -- not time and a half, either). After 1972, MANAGEMENT got the time and a half, while the employees had to work a certain amount of Comp Time before they were elegible. This led to situations like the following:
A project was behind schedule, so one of the bosses at the time asked his team to come in for half-days on Saturdays until they were caught up. The team came in and worked on the designs, drawing them and working on the calculations. The boss came in to "oversee" them and spent the mornings (8:00 until generally 12:00 to 1:00) making coffee, reading the News, making phone calls and sitting at his desk smoking a stogie.
Holy Hell broke loose two paychecks later when one of the employees on the team noticed that they were getting straight time for working while this boss was getting time and a half for sitting around goofing off. Needless to say, the Saturday catch-ups ended right there. We didn't start getting unencumbered overtime pay until the union fought for it almost four years later.
Here's another point. Guys who work private have the right to go on strike if they are being treated unfairly. County Employees don't. The terms of the Taylor Law prohibit that, we have to go to binding arbitration. The state can tell us what we have to do and we have to do it. It can tell the County what to do, but will look the other way when the County ignores the order. It usually took a lawsuit, real or threatened, to make the County comply.
I'm sorry that 've gone on so, its early and I haven't had my morning coffee yet and get steamed up easily.

[tomac]

Originally posted by tomac
Political Public Relations. Back when I started (1970) we had the current vacation allotment:
2 weeks to start
3 weeks after 2 years
4 weeks after 10 years
5 weeks after 17 years
6 weeks after 25 years

One thing I forgot to mention; Joel's appointees are getting 4 weeks of vacation to start, as of January 1st. (its in the budget). This is added on to the fact that they have been getting highest incrimental pay at day of hire since back in 2000.
Everybody else has to go through the system. So I guess that the days of the employees getting Comp and the bosses getting money haven't really changed!

[Curmudgeon]

You can cite all the anchient history you like - it doesn't mean a thing and it certianly doesn't justify faking sick. I've said it a thousand times - IF YOU FEEL YOU ARE BEING UNFAIRLY TREATED AT WORK, QUIT AND FIND A BETTER JOB. Don't steal stuff and then try to justify it by claiming your boss steals more, or whatever....

[tomac]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
You can cite all the anchient history you like - it doesn't mean a thing and it certianly doesn't justify faking sick. I've said it a thousand times - IF YOU FEEL YOU ARE BEING UNFAIRLY TREATED AT WORK, QUIT AND FIND A BETTER JOB. Don't steal stuff and then try to justify it by claiming your boss steals more, or whatever....

I never called in Sick Leave under false circumstances, and I resent you implying that I did. I also resent your implications that I am a thief because I worked in public service.
I was treated unfairly from time to time at work, and at other times I thoroughly enjoyed my work. I finally DID quit and get better work -- I retired.
Once Doug Naylon called me the most negative man he ever met; I do believe sir, that you have me beat hands down.
You seem to be pretty good at talking about something that you know NOTHING about, what are YOUR credentials? Its easy for someone like you to nay-say County Employees; you don't have the grit to do a job like that yourself. All you seem capable of is to bad mouth others and twist things that people say to suit your own ends.
If you have PROOF that I am a thief, trot it out. If not, shut your damned mouth.
I started with Erie County after I got out of the U.S. Marines. I learned a trade through my job and its one that I have been good at for over thirty years. What have YOU done lately?
As I said before, I believe that that NEWS article was scewed to make Joel's position more acceptable to the uninformed, namely that County Workers are a bunch of low-life no-goods. His people have been the thieves these past four years. Cosy deals with Erie County credit cards, items purchased and diverted to private jobs, falsification of overtime records, no-bid contracts and changing the job aspects after the job after the contract has been let; these are all things that have been done with the approval of Joel's appointees.
Tell you what, after the Grand Jury gets done with its work and some indictments are handed out, you tell me then who the thieves are.
Further down the road; after Joel has won and all the current County Emplyees have been replaced with Joel's cronies and pals, you see how well your roads are plowed during the winter, and how well they're repaired during the summer months. See how well Senior Services takes care of your needs and what shape the parks are in.
Then remember this conversation.........

[Curmudgeon]

Oh please - spare us the "you called me a thief" maudlinism. Since I have no idea who YOU are or YOUR specific behavior, calling you a thief makes no sense. But you already know that. I wouldn't mistake you for being so stupid.
You do seem to have appointed yourself chief apoligist for county worker behavior, so that's why your're getting both barrels. You at first denied that the original thread starter was even a county employee, and then when pressed, you gave us a bunch of platitudes about historical grievances that give justification for sick time abuse.
You seem to want to justify county worker misconduct by citing allegations of misconduct by county management. I don't care. If management is up to no good, lock 'em up. If your workers are up no good, fire them. There's no Quid Pro Quo in the eyes of the taxpayer.
And to top it off, you demand "credentials"! What do I need, an application to petition my own government? I have a credential for you, how about "taxpayer". I certianly don't need your permission or a specialized education to cite the fact that county workers call in sick at a rate of almost 3 times the national average. I'm appalled that you even have the arrogance to try to explain to us that the workers are owed that due to some grievances they *might* have.

I don't think anybody's buying your story here.

[citymouse]

crumudgeon,
I don't think he has to spare you anything. You never seem to spare us from your elitist attitude. You are so obviously anti labor that in your zest to point out that most civil servents are whinners and hustlers who are only interested in how to screw you the tax-payer, you don't even get your own facts right.
The news used statistics for both city and county workers yet you don't make any distinctions. All are there to take your tax dollars. You think every man the fool but you. The things you try to cleverly word between the lines you later deny saying. Kind of a sneak if you ask me.
What does come through is your obvious contempt for the working man, particularly the union man. I have read your have made snide commentsabout the trade unions and public sector workers as well as refering to the workers in Erie county as a hostile work force.
I think it would behoove you to be a little more civil in your remarks to people who work for a living. Buffalo is after all a blue collar town and your Buffalo club mentality can get very tiresome at times.

[Curmudgeon]

The things you try to cleverly word between the lines you later deny saying. Kind of a sneak if you ask me.
The problem with web forums is they never forget! Show us one instance of something I have said that I then denied saying. It’s all here. Betcha can’t do it.

What does come through is your obvious contempt for the working man, particularly the union man.
Although I have a desk job now, I was a working man for many, many years. I did some of the crappiest, unhealthiest, and dangerous jobs around. Jobs that required things like safety harnesses and spacesuits to ward of contamination. I’m about as “Working man” as you can get. Got a closet full of Carhardt stuff worn threadbare. I saw firsthand the agenda, inefficiency, and pure BS that goes on. I’ve never seen the inside of the buffalo club and I couldn’t tell you who the members are. I’m 100% with the other “elitist” in this thread – the county worker who started it.

Here’s a nice story – I used to tend bar near the old Harrison Radiator plant off Bailey. At 7pm SHARP, 20 or so guys would come in from the plant (2nd shift) and drink AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE before they had to go back to work. I’d have to hear them bitch like 8th graders about how joe foreman was so mean because he made them sweep or something. They made a lot of money – more so than me. Then the plant closed (SURPRISE!) and some of them had to go to Lockport, while others were let go. The plant closing hurt my neighborhood and the guy I worked for. Why did that plant close? Because their workers were lazy drunkards. That’s when I started thinking the union thing had seen better days and now it’s just a bunch of people trying to get over…

When I was a BC (blue collar) I had several offers to join the union – I turned them down every time. The union guys seemed to be on the bench 6 months out of the year, collecting unenjoyment and doing side jobs. I’d rather work and get a steady check all year and not have to suck up to or kick back the BA.

I think it would behoove you to be a little more civil in your remarks to people who work for a living. Buffalo is after all a blue collar town and your Buffalo club mentality can get very tiresome at times.
The 1950’s are over and they ain’t coming back. Even the little people like me and jaden316 see that clearly. Time to point out the slackers and clean up this place so business will come back here and hire us. I’m glad my mentality tires you out. Too bad you can’t justify what you have to say on the merits of your point of view. You seem to be saying “it would behoove you” as if something bad will happen to me if I don’t shut up.

I still can’t believe the tomac guy was trying to come up with excuses as to why it’s OK to fake being sick…