Plan to make towns pay for road patrols moves ahead

[atotaltotalfan2001]

I agree. We're almost certain to see a lawsuit spring up out of this mess. But, for once, I don't see it as unnecessary. Paying for county sheriff deputy services is bound to become a bigger issue now, with all of NY's counties crying poverty and hustling for more revenue.

If a legal precedent hasn't already been set on this, maybe it's time to do so.

[Linda_D]

I agree. We're almost certain to see a lawsuit spring up out of this mess. But, for once, I don't see it as unnecessary. Paying for county sheriff deputy services is bound to become a bigger issue now, with all of NY's counties crying poverty and hustling for more revenue.

If a legal precedent hasn't already been set on this, maybe it's time to do so.

I think that this isn't much of an issue outside of Erie County because Erie County is largest county, in area, that is so dramatically divided between heavily urban/suburban and rural. The counties that are larger than Erie all tend to be predominantly rural with only a few cities or large towns (like Chautauqua or the Adirondak counties). Most of the heavily urbanized counties like Monroe (Rochester) or Ononadaga (Syracuse) are much smaller in area than Erie, so there are fewer towns and smaller areas for the sheriffs to patrol. In some metro areas like Albany, there's a cluster of cities and their suburbs stretching over two or even three counties.

Oh, btw, also no other county has a gem like Giambra as CE!

[biker]

Linda:

Your sig line quote from Spitzer. Do you think that was a good,clever thing for him to say?

[steven]

We're almost certain to see a lawsuit spring up out of this mess. But, for once, I don't see it as unnecessary.

Your not looking at the reverse consequences.

Say there is a lawsuit

Say the tax payers of municipalities with no police force win.

If I live in Cheektowaga or any other town or city that has a police force well then I'm thinking why should I have to pay for town police thru town taxes when I can just use the sheriff like grand island on my county tax money?

Enough towns opt out of having there own police force, more patrols needed more deputies needed more county taxes needed. As the guy in Tonawanda's county taxes goes up he thinks the same thing "screw this I'll cut my town taxes by getting rid of town cops". Same scenario all over again, and again and again.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Your not looking at the reverse consequences.

Say there is a lawsuit

Say the tax payers of municipalities with no police force win.

If I live in Cheektowaga or any other town or city that has a police force well then I'm thinking why should I have to pay for town police thru town taxes when I can just use the sheriff like grand island on my county tax money?

Enough towns opt out of having there own police force, more patrols needed more deputies needed more county taxes needed. As the guy in Tonawanda's county taxes goes up he thinks the same thing "screw this I'll cut my town taxes by getting rid of town cops". Same scenario all over again, and again and again.

So, we'll end up with a single police force?

[Linda_D]

So, we'll end up with a single police force?

How 'bout that??? Regionalism without coercion and without limiting local control of local government! We can't have that, though, can we?

[Linda_D]

Linda:

Your sig line quote from Spitzer. Do you think that was a good,clever thing for him to say?

The moment I read that quote -- on the York Staters blog before it made the WNY media -- it hit me like a physical blow: at last some politician has acknowleged the reality of upstate NY. Spitzer is right, too. Albany and the Hudson Valley are booming compared to the rest of Upstate, and you can see that if you drive the Thruway, but especially if you drive Route 5 or Route 20 through all the towns and small cities littered with the hulks of manufacturing plants that are no longer there and the empty store-fronts that line their main drags. Even the Business Council agrees with Spitzer.

The sad fact is that the economic "malaise" that affected rural counties in NYS in the 1960s and that got these counties included in the Appalachia designation back then looks good in comparison to what we have now -- not just in the Southern Tier but all over Upstate. It definitely strikes a cord among those of us who are old enough to remember when Dunkirk boasted its own steel mill and Jamestown was a center of furniture making and even little towns like Cattaraugus and Arcade had a factory or two to provide jobs. My own home town of Gowanda was a little economic beehive in the 1960s with thousands of jobs for residents all over southern Erie and northern Cattaraugus and Chautauqua Counties from 2 major private and 2 major public employers. Spitzer's statement just seems to be acknowledging what those of us who don't live in fancy houses in swanky suburbs and make six figure incomes have known for a long time.

[300miles]

Spitzer's statement just seems to be acknowledging what those of us who don't live in fancy houses in swanky suburbs and make six figure incomes have known for a long time.

It's true. But it's unfortunate that he's only saying it to grab upstate votes. People think he'll focus on Upstate, but based on past governors he'll ignore upstate once he gets in office.

No politician anchored in NYC or Albany is going to give a rat's ass about anyone west of Albany. (except for key speeches around election time)

[mikewrona]

I'm not an expert on the NYS constitution. I do believe that the counties, under their state charters are mandated to provide police protection. All other units of government within a county that provide police protection do not have to do so. That protection is provided in addition to the county police.

An easy solution would be to have the counties provide all police protective services.

[biker]

LInda/300

I agree with both of you (sort of) but 300 almost exaclty caught my sentiment.

Of course all of upstate looks like Appalachia.

But Eliot's spouting was almost like gratuitous violence.

And he's not the first to do this. Shumer did the same thing in 1998 and the HilldeBeast did the same in 2000. Remember?

It's a fomula followed by every statewide, NYC-based politico. It's pandering and condescending.

Which is why I came up with my (drum roll) absolutely brilliant idea over in the NYS forum to have Eliot tap Gorski as his lieutenant governor. It absolutely fits in with the political agendas of both men.

Eliot wouldn't have to say nada about upstate any more, avoiding his inevitably "stepping in it" as his Appalachia comment did.

And it gives Dennis a high-profile,well-paying, do-nothing job from which he can pursue other interests.

[biker]

How 'bout that??? Regionalism without coercion and without limiting local control of local government! We can't have that, though, can we?

Brilliant thought,Linda.

Has Wylie E. Coyote been visiting you too?

Voluntary regionalism driven by an economic urge to cut costs.

[Linda_D]

Brilliant thought,Linda.

Has Wylie E. Coyote been visiting you too?

Voluntary regionalism driven by an economic urge to cut costs.

First off, I didn't say whether I believed Spitzer would actually do something about it if elected. Patacki also ran on the "I am an Upstater and I care" line, but he also produced few if any results. I'm not sure what, if any, solution there is to the problem because it's very complicated. As you've probably seen in your travels recently, biker, get away from the bright lights and boom times of the popular suburbs of the popular cities, and suddenly you're in places that are alot like upstate NY only with cacti and sand instead of trees and grass.

Anyways, voluntary regionalism is what you get when you live in Appalachia ... you're too poor to afford luxuries like town police forces.

[biker]

First off, I didn't say whether I believed Spitzer would actually do something about it if elected. Patacki also ran on the "I am an Upstater and I care" line, but he also produced few if any results. I'm not sure what, if any, solution there is to the problem because it's very complicated. As you've probably seen in your travels recently, biker, get away from the bright lights and boom times of the popular suburbs of the popular cities, and suddenly you're in places that are alot like upstate NY only with cacti and sand instead of trees and grass.

Anyways, voluntary regionalism is what you get when you live in Appalachia ... you're too poor to afford luxuries like town police forces.

You're right; I forgot to mention Pataki. Sorry if I don't mention that seems to have a perfect vacuum in terms of ideas and candidates.

And you're right, there is no solution.

Statewide taxes and regulations need to be uniform across the state, n'est-ce pas?

With their overwhelming political clout, NYC sensibilities shape those policies. If a given policy that is great in Brooklyn hurts Elmira, too bad.

You know I follow employment trends a lot. I remember reading that NYC lost 200 thousand mfg jobs in the nineties. That's HUUUUGE!

Yet I don't remember any hand-wringing about it. Dotcom startups and Wall Street were going such gangbusters (one feeding off the other) that it much more than offset that. Besides, the mfg jobs were held by immigrants and Joe Palookas. It's not like anyone important was being hit.

Dotcom and Wall Street have been bust or on the ropes for six years, yet I still don't hear anything from NYC about diversifying into mfg jobs. I guess they think they are soooooo 20th century.

So there won't be any state policies to revive mfg any time soon. No reason for even the drastically-lower population to hang around.

[mikewrona]

So how much is the county going to charge Buffalo for the transport and custody of all of their pretrial prisoners? Seems to me that Buffalo should pay more than Grand Island. I mean, Buffalo has more criminals than Grand Island, but the city pays less in property tax than the suburbs. And when can we expect a county park here? Doesn't seem fair that taxpayers in southern EC get a park right next door and I have to travel to use one.

Grand Island is virtually a "green", wooded suburb, populated by 20,000 fairly well off citizens. It contains 2 State Parks, a beach & 18 hole golf course open to the public, as well as a private country club, and both public and private marinas. And you still want a county park?

Get real.

[300miles]

Statewide taxes and regulations need to be uniform across the state, n'est-ce pas?

Maybe not, Frenchy. There is a group pressing Albany now (someone help me with their name or website... I can't remember) to create 2 levels of regulations: 1 for NYC metro and 1 for the rest of the state. This would allow NYC to maintain is highly regulated and expensive environment, while allowing upstate to create more realistic regulations that would allow for economic growth.

To me this seemed like the perfect alternative to breaking NYS in two.