sales tax versus property tax YOU DECIDE

[MRS.S]

PROPERTY OWNERS PAY PROPERTY TAX, RENTERS PAY PROPERTY TAX{AS A PORTION OF THEIR RENT}---IF YOU DO NOT OWN PROPERTY OR DO NOT PAY RENT, then your opportunity to contribute to the community is limited to paying sales tax "to help float the boat we are ALL in!!" WHEN BUDGET TIME IS UPON US AND THE NEED FOR ADDITIONAL REVENUE puts pressure on the need for more tax dollars, you decide---do we want everyone who spends money in our locale to help via more sales tax collections, OR DO WE JUST HIT THE REAL PROPERTY OWNERS. Seems to this old school marm that "everyone" should contribute hence the need to use the sales tax. OUT of town visitors pay sales tax, ballgames generate sales tax, and hotel taxes. Food purchases generate sales tax. EVEN cell phones, tatoos, nose rings, and beer sales generate sales tax. CIGARETTES and gasoline generate sales tax, even from people just passing thru.NOTE: BUFFALO ONLY GENERATES 22% of the sales tax, BUT CONSUMES MUCH MORE THAN 22%--just check the distributions made by a very old sharing???? formula. ALSO, BUFFALO contributes LESS in COUNTY PROPERTY TAX levies than AMHERST.EVERY TIME SOMEONE WHINES ABOUT SHARING THE SALES TAX I SCRATCH MY HEAD IN BEWILDERMENT AS TO THE IGNORANCE of some of our politicians. IF BUFFALO THINKS IT RECEIVES LESS THAN IT DESERVES WHY NOT PRE_EMPT ERIE COUNTY AND COLLECT AND KEEP ALL SALES TAX GENERATED WITHIN THE BUFFALO CITY LIMITS!!!!!!!!{note-it would be less than you get NOW!!!

[moonshine]

Your question implies there is no alternative and tax increases are a foregone conclusion.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

You're asking the wrong question. The issue needs to be how to get taxes down, not which taxes should go up.

[Boost Buffalo]

BUFFALO ONLY GENERATES 22% of the sales tax, BUT CONSUMES MUCH MORE THAN 22%--just check the distributions made by a very old sharing???? formula. !

Perhaps Buffalo should receive more tax revenues since the burden of Erie County's poor remain Buffalo's responsibility. (We're our brother's keeper, Brother, so shape up!)

So, what are your thoughts on greatly reducing the extraordinary labor union wages and benefits to reduce our county's, cities', towns' and villages' excessive property tax burden, Mrs. S?

[DelawareDistrict]

ALSO, BUFFALO contributes LESS in COUNTY PROPERTY TAX levies than AMHERST.EVERY TIME SOMEONE WHINES ABOUT SHARING THE SALES TAX I SCRATCH MY HEAD IN BEWILDERMENT AS TO THE IGNORANCE of some of our politicians.

Buffalo is also home for many government, tax-exempt, properties including City, County, State and Federal Buildings.

[LHardy]

Perhaps Buffalo should receive more tax revenues since the burden of Erie County's poor remain Buffalo's responsibility. (We're our brother's keeper, Brother, so shape up!)

That is completely false.
EC poor are paid for through EC and Fed Social Services. These programs are not paid for by the city of Buffalo alone. The poor of EC are not only located in the city of Buffalo; they are located in every community in EC.
The city of Buffalo does not pay anything directly to the poor.
If you want to shape up, then the rules for collecting social services needs to change. Change so that EC is not the magnet for the socially needy. Force them to locate in areas where employment is manditory not social services the norm.

[DelawareDistrict]

That is completely false.
EC poor are paid for through EC and Fed Social Services. These programs are not paid for by the city of Buffalo alone. The poor of EC are not only located in the city of Buffalo; they are located in every community in EC.
The city of Buffalo does not pay anything directly to the poor.
If you want to shape up, then the rules for collecting social services needs to change. Change so that EC is not the magnet for the socially needy. Force them to locate in areas where employment is manditory not social services the norm.

I agree that the social programs are a big problem and tend to perpetuate the reliance on such programs. Yes, the poor are in all towns but Buffalo has a disproportionate share because the infrastructure of the city is more conducive to the welfare lifestyle. This results in costs to the city not covered by EC and Federal monies.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

The poor really are everywhere, even in upscale communities like Clarence. Unfortunately, in those cases they are mostly senior citizens on fixed incomes. Still, most poverty is heavily concentrated in Buffalo, and that means the city has to deal with the attendant costs that suburbs mostly escape. I say don't increase any taxes -- they are killing the entire region -- but shift more of what there is to Buffalo.

Unless, of course, the outlying communities are willing to start accepting more subsidized low-income housing. No?

Well then, consider the extra income to Buffalo to deal with poverty-related problems a big thank you note! And, if you dislike the current social services architecture, start lobbying for rational change.

In the meantime, it seems like a fair trade off to me.

[moonshine]

Unless, of course, the outlying communities are willing to start accepting more subsidized low-income housing. No?

It doesn't need to be up to the community. The decision can be made at the individual level. Section 8 requires three willing parties: the landlord, the tenant, and hud. I think you would be surprised to find how many section 8 residents live outside of Buffalo. You probably wouldn't even know your neighbor was collecting section 8. The point is the community doesn't need to turn an entire area into a ghetto by building soviet-style cement housing (urban trailer parks). Look at all the otherwise decent areas in buffalo that have been ruined by this type of planning. Jasper Parish on Hertel and Military and the project on Ontario St. are two good examples.

There will always be landlords willing to accept section 8 due to the mitigation of non-payment risk and the ability to collect above-market rents.

[MRS.S]

Perhaps Buffalo should receive more tax revenues since the burden of Erie County's poor remain Buffalo's responsibility. (We're our brother's keeper, Brother, so shape up!)

So, what are your thoughts on greatly reducing the extraordinary labor union wages and benefits to reduce our county's, cities', towns' and villages' excessive property tax burden, Mrs. S?

WAGES and BENEFITS could be cut in half, and this alone simply would not solve the financial burdens yet to be encountered by Erie County residents. Unfunded mandates, and medical costs for uninsured new yorkers, and an aging population that will require a social saftey net WILL REMAIN SERIOUS DRAINS ON OUR LOCAL ECONOMY. We have over 143,000 senior citizens requiring future social services, we have over 35% of all real property within Erie County classified as" EXEMPT FROM REAL PROPERTY TAXES" that puts a huge burden---tax increase--- on properties actually classified as "TAXABLE" {this is a good story for another day} SERIOUSLY-- the state constitution needs revision to take all new yorkers off the hook for providing for those capable of caring for themselves--we can no longer afford to be the default welfare state of record!!!

[WNYresident]

You're asking the wrong question. The issue needs to be how to get taxes down, not which taxes should go up.

People tend not to use common sense. Cut spending. If it means we need lower cost "salary" packages for our government protected service companies then so be it. You can't protect one persons economic life style while destroying someone elses.

[WNYresident]

WAGES and BENEFITS could be cut in half, and this alone simply would not solve the financial burdens yet to be encountered by Erie County residents. Unfunded mandates, and medical costs for uninsured new yorkers, and an aging population that will require a social saftey net WILL REMAIN SERIOUS DRAINS ON OUR LOCAL ECONOMY.

ANYWAY you like to look at it we over compensate government workers. NOT all of them but a majority of them.

[LHardy]

Del and total;
I am not so certain that the city of Buffalo has a dispropotionate share of poor compared to all of EC.
I will say this. If Buffalo wishes to give up it's poor voting block to the out lying communities. I'll take them all.
I will receive Federal dollars to bank roll all the housing. I'll receive State and county dollars to house, feed and transport the poor. i will also have a built in voting block to use for elections.
The costs you feel are in addition to the dollars received for the poor are not there. Jails are covered by EC. Cops exists with or without the poor. So there really are not any draw backs to the poor living in the city proper.
Unless you concider the poor to be a blight on the community. Then you could be concidered uncompassionate. Which I am certain neither of you are.
Again. You don't want them. I'll take em.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

According to the U.S. Census:

Poverty rate for Erie County: 13 percent

Poverty rate for Buffalo: 26 percent

Amherst: about 6 percent

Colden: 3.4 percent


Sounds like poverty is concentrated in Buffalo, although there are pockets everywhere.

You have a plan for absorbing 75,000 people living below the poverty rate in Buffalo? And without additional revenue i.e. sales tax?

Cool. We're listening....

[LHardy]

Wow that is a larger voting block then anticipated and the things I could do with that many votes!
If I have 100% of the people in poverty move to Colden, the power I would hold in EC would be unsurpassed.
Damn right I'll take em. I'll take em all!
Move ECMC to Colden. All new roads and utilities. Sewer treatment plants. Suburban Adult services up the ying-yang!
Man I can see it now. The best run poor place in EC.
People would be proud to be poor in Colden. They would have to work a little for their keep but what a great idea!