Alan's Ideas...

[ILOVEDNY]

Also really do not understand why things like power and water (which I did not even think about) are not considered in most peoples arguments. In fact, I think they should be factored more than taxes because they do not have the same fluctuations that taxes do.

The subject is tax revenues and how they're distributed..
A downstate electric supplier bying power from an upstate supplier is called commerce.
Not a subsidy

[therising]

1. Abolition of Erie County Government. All we need is a clerk, a sheriff, a comptroller, and a professional county manager.

Although I find myself usually agreeing with you politically, I had always wondered why you ran for County Legislator a few years ago, considering that you had already gone on record as stating that the County Government should be abolished.

Had you won the race, would you have made this proposal (to abolish County Government)?

[ILOVEDNY]

And as far as The Feds Spendulus bailout.
Downstate really gets hosed.
http://www.recovery.ny.gov/maps/arra...rojectsmap.cfm

[run4it]

Because the majority of people in Upstate don't have the same Values of those of the upper west side! What your article fails to point out is the HUGE amount of spending upstate has do to fill downstates needs, like the Prison, SUNY, and the 50K state empolyes in Albany! That alone more than makes up for the 5 billion or your source points out. Additionally, it doesn't facotr in the 30% of lost INCOME rom this year do to the crash of wall street. (remember this time last year the stock market was at a record high of 14k).

Not everyone would think my way, but as you see on here the MAJORITY WOULD and that's all it takes in NYS is the majority!

You really think what you see on here is representative of what most people think? Talk about ignorant...

[ILOVEDNY]

You really think what you see on here is representative of what most people think? Talk about ignorant...

I have to agree with Run on this one Doug.
Conservatives are the majority on SUWNY.



That's because libtards have a much harder time figuring out how this inter tube thingy works.

[Dougles]

You really think what you see on here is representative of what most people think? Talk about ignorant...

Yes! Their are a lot more people in upstate that share my views than downstate. And their are far fewer who share the entitlment ideals that many of the limo liberals of nyc, westchester and suffolk county.
I'm not saying everyone of my ideas or views would come to fruition in an "west new york". But their would be drastic changes that would cut our taxes and allow upsate to grow! To think otherwise is niave!

[Dougles]

I have to agree with Run on this one Doug.
Conservatives are the majority on SUWNY.



That's because libtards have a much harder time figuring out how this inter tube thingy works.

Please consider that of what left called "west new york" only 4 of the 32 nys senators are dems. Some how we get stuck with 2! You also have breslin in albany in some guy in cuse. The rest come from the money pits (brooklyn and the bronx)

[run4it]

Please consider that of what left called "west new york" only 4 of the 32 nys senators are dems. Some how we get stuck with 2! You also have breslin in albany in some guy in cuse. The rest come from the money pits (brooklyn and the bronx)

I'll take your word on the upstate representation in the Senate...don't know myself. How is the Assembly representation split?

[buffalopundit]

Although I find myself usually agreeing with you politically, I had always wondered why you ran for County Legislator a few years ago, considering that you had already gone on record as stating that the County Government should be abolished.

Had you won the race, would you have made this proposal (to abolish County Government)?

Eventually.

[Save Us]

Eventually.

actually most governments could be abolished.

including some police forces ie. Kenmore, depew

including some mergers of school districts

problem is that people think it is the purpose of government to provide jobs here....they have been brainwashed for decades, and the public servants aren't going to shed any light on that one, not if they can help it.

[WNYresident]

I have to agree with Run on this one Doug.
Conservatives are the majority on SUWNY.



That's because libtards have a much harder time figuring out how this inter tube thingy works.

I find it hard to believe people think conservatives are bad in a lot of cases. Most people if asked would like to see the money taken from them in the form of taxes given to their competitors or used to over pay friends/family for positions that for the most part may not be needed.

[run4it]

actually most governments could be abolished.

including some police forces ie. Kenmore, depew

including some mergers of school districts

problem is that people think it is the purpose of government to provide jobs here....they have been brainwashed for decades, and the public servants aren't going to shed any light on that one, not if they can help it.

The problem with this is that you have to convince the people who enjoy those services that they aren't needed.

Want to try to tell someone in Kenmore that they shouldn't have their own police force? Who are we to tell them what kind of protection they need or should want to pay for? Same with schools, &etc &etc. Part of the wonders of layers of government...in a way it all goes back to the ultimate of self-determination.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

The problem with this is that you have to convince the people who enjoy those services that they aren't needed.

Want to try to tell someone in Kenmore that they shouldn't have their own police force? Who are we to tell them what kind of protection they need or should want to pay for? Same with schools, &etc &etc. Part of the wonders of layers of government...in a way it all goes back to the ultimate of self-determination.

Good point.

[Save Us]

The problem with this is that you have to convince the people who enjoy those services that they aren't needed.

Want to try to tell someone in Kenmore that they shouldn't have their own police force? Who are we to tell them what kind of protection they need or should want to pay for? Same with schools, &etc &etc. Part of the wonders of layers of government...in a way it all goes back to the ultimate of self-determination.

I think it is a matter of education,, having folks see that redundancy on all layers contributes to the demise of the area by not having the type of investment that is needed to keep an area solvent. It is part of a much larger picture.

Some months ago I used a few financial calculators to come up with a sum of money that the average person would have in the bank account if they took the savings of taxes (comparable of other areas) and compounded that over 25 years..
In some cases the sum was over $350,000.00 not a bad fund for retirement, yet the cost of calling NY home. Now some people may not care, but educating them that having quality services as I had in many other states does mean you must pay more than the national average. I could certaintly use a few hundred thousand in 25 years.
It's just not efficient and yet could be. I also don't feel that consolidation schools and police would affect delivery/or quality

Yet there is California that made very tough decisions because quite simply the math did not compute.. sometimes you can't argue with numbers just like in our individual homes.

[Linda_D]

Did you actually expect facts from Linda or for her to go in depth on how she forms her opinions? Don't hold your breath.


The result of an Upstate/Downstate divide can only be hypothesized. The results of this split would be based on what what each new state would product of it's new State Constitution. Each new constitution would of course be voted on by the resident population.

What you can talk about is what a State of Upstate would have and not have going for it.

In terms of Power - Upstate would have 2-3 of the Hydro Power facilities depending on where Albany falls in the Upstate/Downstate shift. The Niagara Power Project and the St. Lawrence Power Project produce 10,400,000 kilowatts in CLEAN Energy. The Blenheim Project just east of Albany produces another 1,100,000.

In comparison, the power plants in Downstate are all Fossil-Fueled Facilities and the Big 3 in NYC and Suffolk County produce just 1,520,000 kilowatts.

This is a HUGE advantage for Upstate in both the amount and TYPE of energy produced.

In terms of Labor Law - Upstate would have much easier rules and regulations now that Labor and Unions are not as nearly strong as they once were or in comparison to Downstate. While one could suggest that Upstate would be starting off with less, it would have a MUCH MUCH easier path to growth because of this.

In terms of Social Services - Upstate again would have a never establish a Medicaid program that is the most expensive in the US. It would have costs similar to Ohio which shares a similar voting mentality. Same with welfare and down the line.


What people like Linda fail to grasp is an Upstate/Downstate divide should not be framed on what the states would IMEDIATLY look like after the divide but rather what each states potential/opportunity would be, weighed against it's challenges.

A New State of Upstate would have around 6,500,000 residents which is similar to Arizona. It would have a abundant supply of CLEAN and CHEAP power if the system was cleaned up. It would have less regulations and what regulations existed would ALWAYS be in the best interest of the demographics served.

Your assumption is that everybody in upstate is anti-union, anti-tax, anti-public education, anti-government, etc. Guess again.