The Minimum Wage

[mikewrona]

There is considerable debate as to the value of the minimum wage in the U.S.
I for one believe that it is necessary. Even the American Industrialist Henry Ford realized that over a 100 years ago when he instituted the minimum $5 a day pay rate for his auto workers. This shocked his business competitors who though that such an income would drive them out of business.

What htye found out instead was that when people who normally don't have money get money they spend it on things they need causing sales to increase. What the sense in having workers who can afford to purchase the products the make.

Please take th epoll and get involved in this debate.

I'd appreciate it if the debate is limited to attacking the message and not the messanger.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

The minimum wage, such as it is, is an economic necessity -- now so more than ever as we move more and more to a WalMart economy. WalMart and its kind clearly don't give a hoot about the well being of our country's workers and would pay them in WalMart underwear and socks if it could.

[farmall806]

A minimum wage is a great thing to have, but it is sometimes not as easy to put into practice. Example: You have a job with a set maximum amount to get paid per week. The hourly pay is set at a certain amount. But, if you work more hours per week than you regularly would, you could end up making less than the minimum wage.

[mikewrona]

A minimum wage is a great thing to have, but it is sometimes not as easy to put into practice. Example: You have a job with a set maximum amount to get paid per week. The hourly pay is set at a certain amount. But, if you work more hours per week than you regularly would, you could end up making less than the minimum wage.

If you are being paid an hourly rate and that hourly rate is minimum wage, you must be paid for all hours worked. It is illegal to pay less than the minimum wage for any reason.

[DelawareDistrict]

There are exceptions to the minimum wage requirement, including exceptions for some classes of farm workers. You can get more info here.

[mikewrona]

The minimum wage, such as it is, is an economic necessity -- now so more than ever as we move more and more to a WalMart economy. WalMart and its kind clearly don't give a hoot about the well being of our country's workers and would pay them in WalMart underwear and socks if it could.

I was hoping that this would turn into a good discussion. There are definitely people who think a minimum wage is a hinderance to business competition and growth. As far a SUWNY goes this could be a good measure of the members opinions.

[Jim Ostrowski]

There's very little argument here. Where's the debate?

Why should we control the price of labor and not all other prices? Who will control prices? What is their expertise? The economic ignoramuses in Albany?

What should the minimum wage be?

And let's not call it a minimum wage law, call it what it is: a mandatory unemployment law. It mandates unemployment. Why are you for unemployment?

Those shut out of our highly regulated labor markets don't commit suicide. They go underground and into the black market: drugs, sex, petty theft. Then liberal politicians like Byron Brown thrown into jail to improve our “quality of life.”

You see them in the arraignment part of City Court every morning. Ever seen it? I've seen it for 21 years.

There are better ways to help the working poor such as tax cuts. We have already proposed them. You support the minimum wage and then tax the living hell out the wage earners.

Let's take a poll after the debate.

[mikewrona]

The first and foremost reasn for a minimum wage is the fact that anti-minimum wage supporters don't want the worker to benefit from their labor.

The argument against the minimum has never centered around the benefit to the work, but, around decline in profits.

When there is Inflation? Capitalists blame it on workers attempting to get higher wages.

When there is unemployment? Capitalists blame it on the workers overpricing their labor power.

When there is increased poverty? Thatalso is the fault of workers trying to raise the minimum wage.

And yet for any argument that can be placed against the minimum wage and living wage salaries paid to other workers one indisputable fact remains.
This is from Forbes.com: "More than half of these billionaires—341—are in the US, a jump of 69 over last year. But while the ranks, and personal fortunes, of these super-rich has risen, there has been a corresponding deterioration of the basic infrastructure relied upon by ordinary Americans in their everyday life—roads, railroads, public schools, and other basic necessities. In many cases, these structures are literally crumbling.

The US billionaires’ club this year has some familiar faces and some new ones, and the amounts pulled in by its members are staggering. Thirteen of the top 25 billionaires in the world are US citizens... Average wealth is $3.2 billion."

To give the reader a real sense of what the aver billionaire is worth, consider this: The Census bureau reports the median income in the U.S. to be $43,318
It would take 73872.29327 citizens to be worth 1 typical U.S. billionaire.

The problem isn't the poor making too much.

A good minimum wage ensures that employers will be forced to pay a living wage to all other workers.

[Jim Ostrowski]

You didn't answer most of my points. Why do you favor unemployment? What do you do with the people you've shut out of the labor market?

In the market, workers want to be paid all the wealth in the world; employers want to pay zero. Supply and demand, competition among workers and employers and the productivity of the worker ultimately determines the wage. The feelings of capitalists have little to do with it. If they did, everyone in the world would make the minimum wage.

If the worker is worth $10 an hour to the employer, he will pay up to that level and no more. Why pay up to that level? Because the worker is free to work for anyone else on earth (in a free market--although liberals make it very difficult for people to get jobs and to hire people). Employers gradually bid up the price of labor to what economists call the discounted marginal value product, but that's jargon for productivity.

Here's the technical explanation:

"A capitalist will be willing to hire an additional unit of a productive resource so long as its rental price is lower than its discounted marginal value product (DMVP). The marginal value product (MVP) is the additional revenue that can be imputed to the marginal unit of a productive factor. The discounted MVP is then simply the present market value of the (future) MVP. For example, if an additional hour of labor will generate $110 of additional revenue in one year's time, a prospective employer will pay no more than $100 today to hire this worker if the interest rate is 10 percent."

http://www.mises.org/rothbard/mes/guidechap7.asp

[yokes]

A good minimum wage ensures that employers will be forced to pay a living wage to all other workers.

Artificially setting the value of the labor market in a demand economy does exactly the opposite. Since most business' in the world are selling some sort of good or service, and the market determines the value for that good/service.

Mandating a cost that cannot be passed along because it is inflated to the market value cause declines in profits on the sale of said items/services.

Since most people run business' for profit, when profits go down, they react. So to maintain the balance either they hire less people or cut wages that arent mandated (all other workers) in an effort to rebalance the business.

[Stevenco]

Then liberal politicians like Byron Brown thrown into jail to improve our “quality of life.”
.

The mayor is in jail?

[Right Wing]

If business won't pay into my pension fund causing the government to pickup that burden, it certainly can't be expected to pay it's workers fairly for an honest days work. What has happened to the honest American businessman?

[Jim Ostrowski]

Mike: You make yet another factual mistake. I did not say Madison wrote the Bill of Rights. I said TJ urged Madison to add a Bill of Rights.

You stand corrected once again.

[Jim Ostrowski]

"As far as Sally Hemings. Her ancestors continue to make the claim because DNA shows a connection to the Jefferson family which you can't disprove."

Her ancestors have no known expertise in DNA testing. And I don't have to prove anything. Steven alleged that TJ fathered a slave child. I asked for proof. He or someone cited an article. I posted another source that indicated that the press had not accurately reported what the DNA study meant.

The burden of proof is on Steven to justify his assertion. I don't have to disprove it. I didn't assert anything about TJ's paternity other than to say, it's not very important to me in any way, shape, or form.

[mikewrona]

Mike: You make yet another factual mistake. I did not say Madison wrote the Bill of Rights. I said TJ urged Madison to add a Bill of Rights.

You stand corrected once again.

Go and read from the Library of Congress. Jefferson urged Madison to do nothing. Mason wrote the Virginia Bill of Rights first. Mason wrote the U.S. Bill of Rights second.

George Mason had he not died in 1791 he probably would have been a president of the U.S. and not Jefferson.