Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Buffalo's Waterfront ?

  1. #1
    Member ForestBird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    473

    Question Buffalo's Waterfront ?

    Okay, new subject but old topic - WHAT to do with Buffalo's waterfont?

    It is not a pleasant place. Deep water, high waves, brutal winds. This is not Erie PA's Presque Isle, with miles of sand bars and beaches and trees. It isn't Crystal Beach, either. When Frederick Law Olmsted proposed that South Park should extend down to The Lake, he was told: "We hate the Lake", in essence. A scary, nasty place.


    Bless the hardy souls who can afford to weather the storms in the Marina condos, but what about the rest of the abandoned shore, used for 140 years or so for industry ? Trees and wind turbines? More docks for wealthy owners of boats? What?

  2. #2
    Member Achbek1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Inner ring suburbs.
    Posts
    4,207
    The funny thing is I'm only 31 but back when I was a preteen I remember my parents taking me "downtown to the waterfront" a lot. We used to go to The Hatch and watch the boats. Sometimes we'd cruise around the Naval Servicemen's Park. (The mannequins of the sailors on the USS Sulivan used to totally creep me out!) I remember there being a lot of activity there in the summertime. That was the 80's, when did it really start to decline?

    Is The Hatch even still around?

    But I think that the waterfront should be built up with dining and entertainment establishments, NOT A CASINO OR A BASS PRO!

    I think people would be happy with a place to get some onion rings and hear a cover band while they watch the boats, nothing too fancy.
    I'm just here to make people laugh. And to confuse people. Oh, and to irritate people.

  3. #3
    Member SolarEclipse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Holland, NY
    Posts
    887
    The Hatch is still around, I usually go once or twice a year. The marina is a nice place to walk around on a summer evening.

    What's wrong with building more marinas for boat owners? Not all boat owners are rich - a lot are just average people that like fishing or the recreation of boating. Boaters spend a lot of money on gas, and restaurants/bars with docking access are always busy.

    Waterfront access is always a draw, regardless of whether it's in Florida, Maine, or even Buffalo.

  4. #4
    Member 300miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    9,614
    Quote Originally Posted by Achbek1
    I think people would be happy with a place to get some onion rings and hear a cover band while they watch the boats, nothing too fancy.
    Hey speak for yourself!

    There are a zillion places to BBQ and watch cover bands. The waterfront should be unique and special. If it's too plain there's no reason to go.


    _

  5. #5
    Member crlachepinochet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    1,302
    Fried food and cheap music is do-able. We need to stop thinking of the waterfront as a special magical place that we have to protect. Fact is, there's miles and miles and miles of WNY shoreline from the PA line to Lake Ontario. If something can make it down on the water, then let it come. If someone wants to come in later and build an indoor skeet shoot/cross country skiing range/water park/windmill/baby bottle museum/marina/concert venue/high-rise condo/park/money pit, then they can build it on another piece of the vast expanse or they can buy out the little fried food shack.
    Remain calm!! But run for your lives if necessary!

  6. #6
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    God's Own Country ... the Southern Tier
    Posts
    8,223
    I think that the Outer Harbor would be best served as a seasonal recreational area. Given that the area was formerly industrial sites and the significantly colder climate because of lake winds, I think that it would be foolish to plan on year-round businesses and housing here in the near future.

    At the water's edge, I'd think there should be mostly parkland with paved walkways but not totally paved, with benches as well as scattered picnicking sites with tables. More inland, I would like to see a set of bathrooms, groundskeeper/maintenance/security office/garage in one building, maybe with an observation tower similar to the one at Erie Basin. Nearby might be some electrified shelters for family reunions and picnics, perhaps with some kind of pull-down walls to provide shelter from the lake winds. I would also include a large, well-designed interactive playground (every one of these I've ever seen is simply a kid magnet!) as well as a splash pool with a sprinkler that kids (and moms and pops) can run through.

    The Pier does (maybe did is a more operative word since the NFTA refuses to give the owner a long-term lease in anticipation of immediate development) a good seasonal business with weddings, etc., and I think more businesses of the seasonal nature could fit in here, too: a marina and a boat launch plus seasonal restaurants, or better yet, street vendors with carts. Closest to Fuhrmann Blvd, I think there might be some businesses but I'm not sure what. Eventually, this area might be developed for commericial/housing but I'm really skeptical. The Outer Harbor is not a place where many pedestrians will tread between November and April, and that's what I find most distressing about all these great plans; they're not realistic for Buffalo's climate.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    1,884
    How much colder and windier is it at the outer harbor than say in Hamburg, Waterfront Village, or downtown?

    Its pretty cold in Minneapolis for a few months each year, umm, yah- Chicago too. Toronto gets pretty cold and their waterfront is highly developed. How about those ocean winds in New York City? brrrrrrr

    We all know this isn't Florida or Southern California. No, the waterfront will not be used by sunbathers year-round. There is a plan for parks and waterfront access from the Light House to almost Lackawanna, most of it is already in place. There will be people willing to live at the outer harbor. I wouldn't push for stores and restaurants however except those serving the needs of residents.

  8. #8
    Member ForestBird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    473
    Quote Originally Posted by WestCoastPerspective
    How much colder and windier is it at the outer harbor than say in Hamburg, Waterfront Village, or downtown?

    Its pretty cold in Minneapolis for a few months each year, umm, yah- Chicago too. Toronto gets pretty cold and their waterfront is highly developed. How about those ocean winds in New York City? brrrrrrr
    Hamburg, etc - all about the same nasty blasts of wind, which is why there has never been much built. Hoak's is virtually IN the lake now, due to erosion.

    Minneapolis fronts on which stormy lake?

    Toronto's lakefront does not compare to Buffalo's - entirely different situation. "Cold" is not the same as "frostbite-making 40mph winds with waves crashing over the breakwall". Buffalo has deep and unprotected water - no beaches, no shallows, no relief from high waves and wind.

    The ocean winds in NYC are not cold; I visit every Xmas and have no problem standing on the forward deck of the Staten Island ferries!

    I'm not saying that our waterfront cannot be used, but only that the weather conditions have been generally ignored by recent plans.

  9. #9
    Member speaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    5,801

    Angry

    The Buffalo waterfront at the junction of the river and lake is colder and windier than downtown buffalo. But that shouldn't stop anyone.
    What I don't want to see is private residences of any form, springing up. Buffalo and Erie County should be trying to buy up the waterfront to be made into parks for the public, not for the land to be cordoned off from the public. Why do the developers, etc., keep attempting this. I think everyone should stay on top of this. Developers keep trying to sneak private ownership into what is rightfully public property.

  10. #10
    Member 300miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    9,614
    Jeez, people make it sound like we live on the Arctic Circle and the waterfront is uninhabitable or something. The people in the lakefront condos seem to deal with it just fine and their soaring condo prices tell me the weather is not an issue. Likewise the HSBC arena is pretty close to the water and you don't see thousands frozen to death trying to reach the game.

    by the way, I agree with parklike settings for the waterfront, but don't forget most of what you guys listed is already there now. It's called LaSalle Park.

  11. #11
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    God's Own Country ... the Southern Tier
    Posts
    8,223
    The townhouses and condos in and around Erie Basin are part of the Inner Harbor, which is much more sheltered than the Outer Harbor. You'll also notice that even the newest group of townhouses being built in Waterfront Village are built back away from the water. More importantly, you'll notice that there has been virtually no commercial development in WV at least partly because there is virtually no foot traffic, especially from November through March, to support shops and other small businesses.

    When this area was developed, commercial development of various types was anticipated just like that touted for the Bass Pro area. I think there's an office building, but little else. Crawdaddy's lasted a while but that site's been closed for more than a decade. The Erie Basin Marina attracts people in the summer, but mostly empty of non-boaters the rest of the year and closed in the winter. The limitations of climate have to be factored into waterfront development in WNY, and it's not.

    Unfortunately, the most hospitable waterfront in Buffalo is along the Niagara River, and that's been pretty much trashed by industrial usage, a railroad, the NYS Thruway, the city incinerator and dump on Squaw Island, and the endless wait for something to be done about the Peace Bridge. I'm not sure if any of this shoreline can be rescued, although there's a park proposed for development at the end of Hertel Avenue. One area that might lend itself to loft-style condos is along the west side of Niagara Street from where it turns north towards West Ferry where Rich Products is located. These are mostly old industrial buildings up on the bluff above the railroad and Thruway. Of course, these could all be wiped out in the building of the new bridge -- if it ever gets built.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  12. #12
    Member speaker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    5,801
    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles
    -------------
    by the way, I agree with parklike settings for the waterfront, but don't forget most of what you guys listed is already there now. It's called LaSalle Park.
    Yes but I mean along the waterfront---like Canada's riverfront. Noone can swim there, but it' would be nice to have green space all along it. This slipped out of Erie County's reach but should have been bought up over the last 50 years. Could still be remedied.

  13. #13
    Member Achbek1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Inner ring suburbs.
    Posts
    4,207
    Quote Originally Posted by 300miles
    Hey speak for yourself!

    There are a zillion places to BBQ and watch cover bands. The waterfront should be unique and special. If it's too plain there's no reason to go.


    _
    Well then if you prefer upscale, I'm not saying that EVERY PLACE has to be an "Uncle Larry's House Of Onion Rings."

    But maybe a compromise, a variety of both upscale and casual places-- make the waterfront accessible for everyone. That way both the flip-flop crowd and the topsiders crowd will be happy.



    That's part of Buffalo's dichotomy, the conflict between the "upscale" and the "downscale." It's like we're on an episode of "Frasier" sometimes.

    Personally, I could go either way. I have just as much fun chomping chili dogs while I watch an out tune garage band playing Bachman Turner Overdrive as I do sipping wine and listening to Puccini. But that's just me.
    I'm just here to make people laugh. And to confuse people. Oh, and to irritate people.

  14. #14
    Member wheresthesun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,059

    The Buffalo Shuffle?

    Maybe it was Buffy who recently mentioned, "the Buffalo Shuffle?" In any case, I'd mentioned before, a long time ago, that Baltimore's Inner Harbor isn't all that different, physically, from Buffalo's waterfront. Difference is that they developed theirs, and it's thriving. Not sure why this model wouldn't work, to some extent, in Buffalo, except the obvious, "Buffalo Shuffle." Maryland's weather, not much different than ours, hasn't impeded their inner harbor progress whatsoever. It's not a complicated model.

  15. #15
    Member 300miles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Buffalo
    Posts
    9,614
    Ha ha. No not that kind of upscale... just something more unique I guess.

    I'd love to see the waterfront developed like Chicago's. Long stretches of woodsy parks and open areas. Lot's of sand beaches. and a few big attractions sprinkled in like Navy Pier

    I guess our Inner Harbor will be like their Navy Pier actually.

    Because of the erosion factor, we may be on the wrong side of the lake to build big sand beaches ... but it would be nice to have a few decent beaches down there to party in the summertime. We're on a huge lake and we have no beaches!

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Waterfront Plans ...
    By Linda_D in forum Buffalo NY Politics
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: March 13th, 2006, 11:33 AM
  2. waterfront development
    By OneEmerald in forum Buffalo NY Politics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 5th, 2006, 03:15 PM
  3. What Waterfront?
    By LHardy in forum Erie County Politics
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: October 28th, 2005, 03:20 PM
  4. Buffalo Waterfront Progress 1998!
    By ReformWNY in forum Morning Breakfast - Breaking News
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: August 25th, 2005, 09:58 PM
  5. Buffalo's Waterfront
    By figmo in forum Morning Breakfast - Breaking News
    Replies: 147
    Last Post: July 10th, 2005, 09:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •