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Thread: Hope for a Derlict Grain Elevator

  1. #31
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Originally posted by biker
    Methinks I smell a frustrated developer, who is watching the faster and better-financed Senecas quickly making moves that would take him and his boughtandpaidfor dumb@ss politician servants years to pull off.
    Sadly no, I'm not a developer.

  2. #32
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 300miles
    The Federal govt GAVE THE SENECAS $30 MILLION to buy land! Why is that any better that the millions invested in infrastructure for Bass Pro?

    This is hardly a golly-gee good-for-everybody transaction. The Senecas have received assistance from our govt to make this all possible, and yes that included MONEY. Millions of it. And now they are playing financial magic tricks to make that 30 million go much farther that our govt ever intended.
    The $30 million from the federal government wasn't a "freebie" given from the goodness of Uncle Sam's heart, 300miles. It was a settlement for NYS and the feds allowing the Senecas to be coerced into leasing the land where the city of Salamanca now is for just pennies a year for a hundred years. That settlement also allows the Senecas to recreate new lands into their reservations as long as it was in their traditional territory.

    In the late 1880s, Salamanca was a major railroad center with huge facilities right in the heart of town, but most of the land in question had been effectively stolen from the Senecas in the 1840s and 1850s with short term leases (10 or 20 year terms). In the early 1890s, NYS and/or the feds worked out 99-year leases for Seneca lands that even by the standards of the times paid only a pittance compared to what the land was worth, with no mechanicism for adjusting for inflation. That $30 million and the Seneca land act of 1990 were a cheap way for the feds to get out of a nasty situation that they created by failing to watch out for the Senecas' interests back in 1891, which they were bound by treaties and federal law to do.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  3. #33
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    If the Senecas are trying to increase their real estate holdings by lawsuits and buying the land, it sounds like they are working within our systems.

    Rather than just slap them back, we should work out an accomodation with them and work towards a joint vision for the future.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  4. #34
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    I'm reading a lot of excuses for the Senecas here, while the same people jump on me for supporting other projects. If you can't see why there are some problems with the Casino dealings but at the same time see everything wrong with the Bass Pro project then there is clearly bias.

    Linda, do you have connections with the casinos? You seem to be very defensive when it comes to casino discussions. I think you wrote some editorials about it too. Nothing wrong with that of course. There is pro and con to every development but when it comes to the casinos you seem to think it is win win win which it is not, and think Bass Pro is lose lose lose which it is not.

    In fact I think these two project have much more in common. Both involve closed-door government dealing, both are short on real information and both seem to have much more benefit for the company than for Buffalo's economy.

    I do hope things work out and the Senecas put some effort into being a part of the community instead of an island shaped like a big middle finger.

  5. #35
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    They're re-broadcasting "The President's" on The History Channel today. They just finished the segment on the Indian Removal Act during Jackson's Reign.

    The Cherokees fought the action through the courts. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court. Where they won. Whereupon Jackson said, "Chief Justice Marshall got his verdict. Now let him enforce it." Jackson then moved the Cherokee (and Chickasaw and Choctaw) to Oklahoma.

    I don't see how the Senecas are stealing land or demanding that it be given to them by a guilty majority. They are buying it.

    Sounds like they are working through our system and are winning.

    I've got no beef with them.

    Thanks, Linda, for clarifying where the $30 million came from. The "they were given $30 million" is the type of half-truth lie I usually see only on financial message boards.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  6. #36
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Originally posted by 300miles
    I'm reading a lot of excuses for the Senecas here, while the same people jump on me for supporting other projects. If you can't see why there are some problems with the Casino dealings but at the same time see everything wrong with the Bass Pro project then there is clearly bias.

    Linda, do you have connections with the casinos? You seem to be very defensive when it comes to casino discussions. I think you wrote some editorials about it too. Nothing wrong with that of course. There is pro and con to every development but when it comes to the casinos you seem to think it is win win win which it is not, and think Bass Pro is lose lose lose which it is not.

    In fact I think these two project have much more in common. Both involve closed-door government dealing, both are short on real information and both seem to have much more benefit for the company than for Buffalo's economy.

    I do hope things work out and the Senecas put some effort into being a part of the community instead of an island shaped like a big middle finger.
    I don't think casinos are win-win situations, but I also don't think they're the monstrous evils that opponents claim they are, either. Again, while casino opponents make all kinds of claims about how bad casinos are, they don't have any stats to back up their claims, and they ignore the fact that Buffalo and NYS will get a slice of the casino profits.

    What I don't like is the Senecas being painted as sinister and devious over and over again by the Buffalo News. Many of the issues the SNOOZE repeatedly brings up are scare tactics. The use of eminent domain was agreed to by NYS only for Niagara Falls, probably because the state wanted to make sure that the casino moved forward ASAP. The issue of the Senecas building housing as part of their casino project is aimed at the future Catskill casino which would be located in/near a small town (I think it's proposed for Monticello Raceway) where affordable housing for many casino workers, especially the lower paid staff, is non-existent, but that, too, has be used by the SNOOZE to make people think the Senecas plan on building some kind of housing complex for their workers.

    Moreover, while the SNOOZE put the story about preservationists and others trying to stop the casino in order to save the grain silo on the front page (more than once, I believe), it buried the story that the Senecas were looking into the feasibility of saving the H-O Oats elevator back in the business section.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  7. #37
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    what the suits are really about

    The current lawsuits against the proposed casino are about the illegality of using the 1990 Settlement Act to justify the land transfers, possible violations of IGRA, lack of environmental impact studies, and lack of public input.

    They are not about the grain elevators, though a preservation group is one of many plaintiffs on the federal complaint.
    www.allentowngardener.com

  8. #38
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    Linda!!

    "Buried in the business section."!!!???

    You cut me to the quick.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  9. #39
    Member Linda_D's Avatar
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    Originally posted by biker
    Linda!!

    "Buried in the business section."!!!???

    You cut me to the quick.
    No offense meant, but the front page is the front page.

    When the Bills make big news, they make the front page, but most Bills news is buried in the sports section.

    Does that make you feel better, biker?
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  10. #40
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    I saw the HOHO towers while at the aud.. err i mean HSBC...

    They do not ring out history. A lot of the other buildings where the brick road is looks more like history.. There was even a blacksmith sign still attached to the building.

  11. #41
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    I think that blacksmith is still operating! There was a story in the News a couple years back.

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