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Thread: Hope for a Derlict Grain Elevator

  1. #16
    Member granpabob's Avatar
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    its not public money the Senecas don't have to tell the paper anything and that pisses of the reporters so they write how secretive and sneaky they are. they can hire who they want and build it the way they want and don't need the news or our politicians input.
    look around at our public projects. like the bridge, the canal, the water front, the subway to no where and the bait shop would you want that help on your project
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

  2. #17
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    Not true gramps- they need permission from the City if they want to build their pedestrian walk over Fulton Street. See today's paper. Of couse, they can easily circumvent that, scrap the pedestrian bridge.

  3. #18
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    Re: Re: Re: Hope for a Derlict Grain Elevator

    Originally posted by Linda_D
    300miles, your prejudice is showing.
    I'm not predudice at all if you mean that in a racial sense. I have nothing against Native American people. In fact there are many Seneca people that do not agree with their tribe's focus on gambling.

    But if you really meant I'm "prejudiced" against the Seneca Gambling entity in the same way many people are "prejudiced" against Tobacco companies, or how people are "prejudiced" against certain greedy corporations like Enron. Then yes maybe I am.

    Of course that's not really predudice at all because it's based on past actions. I know they are not EVIL. They are regular people. People should not be judged on color, but they SHOULD be judged on their actions.

    - So far I see them creating financial gimmicks to extend their land-grabs perpetually, and circumvent the agreements with NYS.

    - So far I see them using emimant domain in NF to take away lifetime homes from little old ladies.

    - So far I see them insist repeatedly they have no interest in a hotel in Buffalo, only to turn around 2 weeks later and have their architects plan for a hotel.

    - So far I have seen them talk less about the future of BUFFALO and more about them getting land back for the SENECA NATION.

    These are their actions. This is what I judge them on. That is not prejudice.

    Now, if over the next year they come clean with what their REAL plans are for Buffalo, and actually make decisions that are MUTUALLY beneficial to Buffalo and the Senecas, then those good actions will improve my image of them.

    From what I see now though, I'm not going to hold my breath.

  4. #19
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    I think we should recognize that the interests of the Senecas and ourselves are different. Not better, perhaps. Not worse, perhaps. Different.

    Which also could mean better or worse.

    It doesn't take a rocket scientist (or even a Christian Scientist) to figure out that----from the perspective of a lot of Senecas----life would be much better if white people had never come to WNY.

    So that the bleatings of some that the Senecas should preserve the grain silos was laughable idiocy.

    I think it's safe to assume that the Senecas will seek to expand their real estate holdings as much as possible. I don't think that's necessarily sinister. There's plenty of land in WNY. Would many object if they said they wanted to buy a big part of the East Side?

    Now, planning for the impact of this is another thing. That's something we should work on with them. Maybe even get into some shoving matches over. Like will it be tax exempt (probably) and what public services would the Senecas expect for that land (none).

    What if their big, secret plan is to buy as much land as possible and turn it back to what it was three hundred years ago. Would that be so bad?
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  5. #20
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Originally posted by biker
    What if their big, secret plan is to buy as much land as possible and turn it back to what it was three hundred years ago. Would that be so bad?
    In the heart of Downtown Buffalo?? Yes, that would be very very bad.

  6. #21
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    Look at what the dummies who run downtown have done to it over the past thirty years.

    Convention Center
    Subway
    No cars on Main Street
    HSBC cutting off Main Street
    Main Place Mall
    $60 MILLION DOLLARS on the Theater District


    I could go on, but I don't want to get tedious.

    The Senecas are going to do something downtown that won't cost any public money.

    Knowing nothing other than that, I'm happy.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  7. #22
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Originally posted by biker
    Look at what the dummies who run downtown have done to it over the past thirty years.

    Convention Center
    Subway
    No cars on Main Street
    HSBC cutting off Main Street
    Main Place Mall
    $60 MILLION DOLLARS on the Theater District
    Which is exactly why people want to scrutinize everything now. There have been plenty of mistakes made downtown, and most haven't received real scrutiny before they were implemented.

    But whenever anyone tries to get all the details understood beforehand they're labeled "obstructionist"

    Do we really need another mistake downtown?

    All the Senecas need to do is communicate truthfully what they are planning, which they refuse to do.

  8. #23
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    Here is the perfect opportunity to preserve this beauty.





    Buy it!!!

  9. #24
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    How about we focus our attention on the pending Bass Pro fiasco.

    One which will use public dollars.

    One which is promoted by politicians.

    Most of whom are certifiable morons. Or thieves. Or both.

    Pick your fights.

    Go after the one which doesn't even have a signed document yet, which will use public monies.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  10. #25
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    Go therising.

    Let's bring Mike Collins out of retirement.

    Let's do a fund raiser.

    "Own a piece of historty."
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  11. #26
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    Originally posted by 300miles
    Which is exactly why people want to scrutinize everything now. There have been plenty of mistakes made downtown, and most haven't received real scrutiny before they were implemented.

    But whenever anyone tries to get all the details understood beforehand they're labeled "obstructionist"

    Do we really need another mistake downtown?

    All the Senecas need to do is communicate truthfully what they are planning, which they refuse to do.
    So, why do the Senecas have to be more "truthful" about their plans than BaitScam??? Baitscam was supposed to invest something like $57 million, but now it looks like it's actually around $22 million with the rest paid for by NYS, Erie County, and Buffalo taxpayers -- and the county and city are going to borrow their share of the public ante against future sales tax receipts generated from BaitScam!!! Baitscam is going to lease the old Aud from the state for $1 a year, and how much are they going to pay in real estate taxes to the city and county? You got politicians and BaitScam bigshots huddling, and not a straight answer out of the lot of them except fantasies! Can you say secretive and devious?

    As GrandpaBob said, the Senecas aren't taking any money from the city, so they aren't obligated to conduct their business in public for the edification of the SNOOZE and its minions. More importantly, they are going to give millions of dollars to the City of Buffalo. If the casino were a non-Indian casino, it would pay income taxes to NYS and real estate taxes to Buffalo; instead Buffalo and NYS will share in the casino profits which should cover additional costs and then some. That minor fact gets ignored by casino opponents when they wail about all the "costs" that have yet to add up in either Niagara Falls or Salamanca.

    So, 300miles, why the double-standard on BaitScam and the Seneca Casino, not just by you but by the SNOOZE and other casino opponents? I call it prejudice because I doubt that there would be any opposition at all except from some church leaders if a bunch of politically-connected local "leaders" (Paul Snyder perhaps) was building a casino in downtown Buffalo.
    Your right to buy a military weapon without hindrance, delay or training cannot trump Daniel Bardenís right to see his eighth birthday. -- Jim Himes

  12. #27
    Member 300miles's Avatar
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    Linda, you misunderstand... I'm not saying let's scrutinize the Casino and let Bass Pro go scott free. I'm saying SCRUTINIZE EVERYTHING. Bass Pro, The Casino, Geico, Cars on Main, Peace Bridge, Richardson, the Court Bldg. No sacred cows. But then they say it's obstructing. If you look thru buffalo history over the last 50 years, I'd say we could have used a few more 'obstructionists' asking questions.

    As for Public Investment.... I'll turn this around to you and ask why are you focusing only on Bass Pro public dollars while ignoring the Senecas public assistance? or ignoring the Geico public assistance?

    The Federal govt GAVE THE SENECAS $30 MILLION to buy land! Why is that any better that the millions invested in infrastructure for Bass Pro?

    This is hardly a golly-gee good-for-everybody transaction. The Senecas have received assistance from our govt to make this all possible, and yes that included MONEY. Millions of it. And now they are playing financial magic tricks to make that 30 million go much farther that our govt ever intended.

    The purpose of asking questions and demanding answers is not to stop these projects. It's to make sure they don't **** things up any more.

    The Bass Pro deal still has to answer questions too. I'm not trying to cut them slack. And while I was supportive of it (based on the info available at the time) I'm more unsure about it as time goes by without any action and without real answers.

    But why should we should only focus our attention on Bass Pro? We should focus our attention on all projects. Buffalo seems to have a very limited attention span. Why?

  13. #28
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    Originally posted by therising
    Here is the perfect opportunity to preserve this beauty.
    Buy it!!![/URL]
    Maybe if the Feds gave me $30 million dollars to spend on Buffalo real estate I would buy it.

    Actually I'd spend it all on cars and vacations... but you get my point.

  14. #29
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    Methinks I smell a frustrated developer, who is watching the faster and better-financed Senecas quickly making moves that would take him and his boughtandpaidfor dumb@ss politician servants years to pull off.
    Truth springs from argument among friends.

  15. #30
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    it is not a secret that they want the buffalo creek reservation back they even sued for it once. now they have another way to get the reservation back acre buy acre block buy block. the law suit would have just given it to them.
    if the Senecas pay for the land and do something with it so be it. half of that land does not pay property taxes now . all these complainers have to do is pay more then the Indians do and they can have the land
    One good thing about growing old is your secrets are safe with your friends they can't remember them either

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