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Thread: New plans for Westwood....

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    New plans for Westwood....

    Amherst may lose rare green space with country club redevelopment…
    Offices, hotel, retail to replace country club.

    The owners of one of the last privately owned green spaces in the Town of Amherst – the Westwood Country Club – say they want to develop it as a mixed-use project.


    Mensch Capital Partners LLC, an investor group that bought the 68-year-old country club from its members in 2012, informally approached the town Planning Board two weeks ago with the idea.


    No formal plans have been submitted to the town, and Planning Director Rick Gillert said he doesn’t expect anything to be filed until at least January.


    He declined to elaborate on the nature of the talks or the concepts, noting that details could change significantly before anything is submitted. However, options would likely include some combination of office space, hotel, retail and housing, some of which may require rezoning by the town. The property is now zoned as a community facility.


    “We’ve had informal discussions with them, but nothing that I could really discuss as a proposal,” he said.


    Meanwhile, the investor group began conducting soil tests “to understand the constraints of a site,” said Andrew J. Shaevel, the managing partner of the group.


    “We’re evaluating our options,” Shaevel said. “We’re doing what we have to do to make good informed decisions.”


    The development talks follow the collapse early this year of negotiations for a land swap between the Mench Partners and the Town of Amherst – the 170-acre Westwood property in exchange for 170 acres of the 213-acre town-owned Audubon Golf Course.


    Mensch felt the Audubon property – located between Millersport Highway, North Forest Road and Maple Road, and near University at Buffalo’s North Campus – was more suited to redevelopment than Westwood, which is sandwiched between North Forest and Maple roads and Sheridan Drive.


    Amherst officials rejected that proposal, which they said wasn’t a fair swap because the land is valued differently, and further talks went nowhere.


    At Westwood, speculation about the ultimate intentions of the club’s new owners began the moment they bought it for $2.5 million, with many observers expecting they would ultimately turn to commercial or residential development of the site rather than keeping it as a golf course.


    However, the country club will remain open for the coming golf season.


    Besides Shaevel and Paul J. Kolkmeyer, both of Essjay Partners LLC, the group includes Paul Ciminelli, CEO of Ciminelli Real Estate, and Mark and Dan Hamister, of Hamister Group.


    Opportunities for large-scale development in Amherst are becoming fewer, as there are few large parcels available that aren’t set aside for parkland or wetlands. So developers are eager for any opening they can find. For example, the former Evergreen Golf Course on Tonawanda Creek Road is now a Marrano/Marc Equity housing development called Evergeen Landing.


    That’s what worries Amherst Town Supervisor Barry Weinstein.


    “Personally, I’m very concerned about the loss of a golf course, and the loss of open space and the loss of recreational area,” he said, although he would not take a position on the proposed development. However, he said, “I’m not surprised, based upon previous discussions.”


    But there’s no guarantee the group can get the town to go along with developing Westwood. Heavy opposition by area residents, particularly in the Fairways neighborhood, derailed Benderson Development Co.’s efforts to build on the former gun club property along Maple Road, and opponents had already started speaking out against the land swap when that was pending.


    Also, Weinstein and the Town Board took heat during the recent election over their approval for prior hotel developments on Main Street in Amherst and Snyder.


    “They can come to the Town Board just like anybody else, and if it fits with the master plan, I would think the Town Board would consider rezoning it,” said Council Member Steven Sanders. But, he said, “They probably would be held to a slightly harder test, just because of the factors in that neighborhood. I imagine that we would look at this under a microscope, making sure everything is clean.”


    Originally founded in 1945 with 200 members, Westwood grew and thrived for decades but fell into decline as its original purpose – a club for Jewish people who were not allowed to join other existing organizations – was no longer necessary. Membership plunged, finances deteriorated and debts mounted, forcing the club to put itself up for sale or be closed.

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    Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till its gone - They've paved Paradise and put up a parking lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buffy View Post
    Don't it always seem to go, you don't know what you've got till its gone - They've paved Paradise and put up a parking lot.
    What's interesting to me is how this is going to impact the residents in the Fairways neighborhood. They blocked a lifestyle center on the other side of Maple a couple years back. Now they have this right next door.

    I wonder if this project would have even happened if the Benderson project was done. It's possible that while being successful in blocking that project to prevent an increase in traffic..they may just have killed their view.

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    My understanding is that this property is a private country club so if it's a paradise it's a private one and it's not "walkable" by Amherst residents. People, at least try to be honest about what you're talking about here. With all due respect to Joni Mitchell I'm pretty sure there's already a paved parking lot there!

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    Parts of the golf course borders a public nature path that I frequently bike. It's a very popular path and it's proximity to the golf course adds to the beautiful pastoral scene. It would be a shame to look up from the path and see apartment buildings rather than grass, just saying.

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    What uses are allowed under the proprty's current zoning? Aside from a country club.

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    Westwood owners wants to redevelop the parcel into a massive complex.

    Plans Here - http://www.westwoodamherst.com/

    • 108 Patio Homes adjacent to Audubon Par 3 Golf Course
    • 90 Condo/Townhouses
    • 46 Single Family Lots
    • 200 assisted living and 100 independent units
    • 64 acres of public green space and open space
    • 56 Rental Apartments and townhouses
    • 280 units of residential living over neighborhood shops and restaurants
    • 37 lakeside apartments or townhouses
    • 130 room hotel
    • 200,000 square feet of professional office space (six buildings

    This is following the move by the Town to change the zoning of 3,400 acres and more than 100 public and private properties to "recreation conservation"...


    My personal take is that while this is a really nice infill development from an urban living perspective there is no way in hell they are going to get approval for this. The force of the NIMBY's is strong. They blocked a similar and much smaller development on the other side of Maple. No way in hell I see them lying down for a massive development on their 'personal' green space.

    I also doubt the ability for this group to pull off such a project.


    Personally, I wish the TOA would find a way to purchase the property outright and merge it with the Par 3 course for the main town course. In turn, they could make the existing audubon course into a open park. But that won't happen.

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    Since you left WNY because of the bull**** I guess you don't care how much it would cost the Amherst taxpayers to buy the land and make the changes you want even though you've left WNY. And of course theres the lost tax revenue by taking the property off the tax roll.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    Since you left WNY because of the bull**** I guess you don't care how much it would cost the Amherst taxpayers to buy the land and make the changes you want even though you've left WNY. And of course theres the lost tax revenue by taking the property off the tax roll.

    When I said 'find a way to purchase' I was speaking to the difficulty of getting financing to buy the course. I also understand there would be a loss of revenue on the course itself. The club itself was only purchased for $2.5 million just a few years ago. That is why the TOA should have tried to purchase it.


    That said, I think in the end a solution could have been found that would have made the numbers work out.

    1 - By combining the Westwood Course and the Par 3, they could have created one of the better courses in the region. This would have allowed them to charge more than they currently do. Now I know there are some duffers and grumps who want to play for as cheap as possible but in the long run a better course would have made more money.

    2 - They could have Opened the development of the land facing Maple where the current course sits. Even 'cutting in' just 500 feet would have left a massive amount of acreage open to the public. I could easily see some high end mid-rise office buildings wanting to front Maple and back to a MASSIVE amount of green space.

    3 - This would have locked in a MASSIVE amount of park space for the town. They could have added trails, gazebos and the like. While not raising revenue, I think this would have added value to those who live around here. It would have also added a lot of value to the town itself.

    You could start to do festivals like the COB does inside of the Town at the park. You could carve out a large open lawn like in Central Park and do a loop around it.



    Or you could just be a grumpy old man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    When I said 'find a way to purchase' I was speaking to the difficulty of getting financing to buy the course. I also understand there would be a loss of revenue on the course itself. The club itself was only purchased for $2.5 million just a few years ago. That is why the TOA should have tried to purchase it.


    That said, I think in the end a solution could have been found that would have made the numbers work out.

    1 - By combining the Westwood Course and the Par 3, they could have created one of the better courses in the region. This would have allowed them to charge more than they currently do. Now I know there are some duffers and grumps who want to play for as cheap as possible but in the long run a better course would have made more money.

    2 - They could have Opened the development of the land facing Maple where the current course sits. Even 'cutting in' just 500 feet would have left a massive amount of acreage open to the public. I could easily see some high end mid-rise office buildings wanting to front Maple and back to a MASSIVE amount of green space.

    3 - This would have locked in a MASSIVE amount of park space for the town. They could have added trails, gazebos and the like. While not raising revenue, I think this would have added value to those who live around here. It would have also added a lot of value to the town itself.

    You could start to do festivals like the COB does inside of the Town at the park. You could carve out a large open lawn like in Central Park and do a loop around it.



    Or you could just be a grumpy old man.
    So nice of you to think of "those who live around here." if you really "LeftWNYbecause of bs" exactly where is the "here" they live around? Amherst or the place you supposedly "LeftWNY" for? Only $2.5 million of taxpayer $ to buy a golf course the town doesn't need & add on the lost tax revenue in perpetuity? Mere chicken feed when you're spending other people's scratch. You can easily see office space along Maple road but can the market see it? Perhaps you'd like to buy the land build the buildings and find the tenants. Nothing to it. Then let's piss away more taxpayer money on gazebos. Actually, that's a great idea. I never hear people clamoring for relief from the cost of government but everywhere I go I hear people complaining about the lack of gazebos. Seems there's never one around when you need it! How will the golfers play golf with all the festivals we'll be having? Where will you place the flag sticks....in the middle of the big open lawn with the loop around it? When we've finished with this I suggest we start spinning straw into gold.
    Last edited by grump; July 14th, 2014 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Spelling

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    So nice of you to think of "those who live around here." if you really "LeftWNYbecause of bs" exactly where is the "here" they live around? Amherst or the place you supposedly "LeftWNY" for? Only $2.5 million of taxpayer $ to buy a golf course the town doesn't need & add on the lost tax revenue in perpetuity? Mere chicken feed when you're spending other people's scratch. You can easily see office space along Maple road but can the market see it? Perhaps you'd like to buy the land build the buildings and find the tenants. Nothing to it. Then let's piss away more taxpayer money on gazebos. Actually, that's a great idea. I never hear people clamoring for relief from the cost of government but everywhere I go I hear people complaining about the lack of gazebos. Seems there's never one around when you need it! How will the golfers play golf with all the festivals we'll be having? Where will you place the flag sticks....in the middle of the big open lawn with the loop around it? When we've finished with this I suggest we start spinning straw into gold.

    Heh. You're really a miserable old SOB. Kinda amusing. Keep typing with two fingers old man.

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    I guess if I were an old man that types with 2 fingers that would justify all your arguments. If you don't mind my asking just where did you leave WNY for and why would people living around there want to come here to use this park you propose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    I guess if I were an old man that types with 2 fingers that would justify all your arguments. If you don't mind my asking just where did you leave WNY for and why would people living around there want to come here to use this park you propose?
    I left WNY because there was more opportunity elsewhere in my early 20s. What I do does not have an economy in WNY. I did not want to become a 'townie' and wanted to work with technology. That economy did not really exist back then and is now just coming around.

    I grew up in Amherst. I spent my summers as a youth on that course. I have done countless trips on that bike path. People who live south off Main in the town have access to some amazing parks. North of Sheridan is not the same.

    I don't see Amherst slowing down any time soon. I still think there is a great future ahead for developments of both residential and commercial in the northern park of town. I also think that as Buffalo improves...which it is slowly...the southern part of the town is going to see some redevelopment. Both are already happening.

    All of that said, the ability to have a central park in the center of the town is something that they money should be found for. I am not looking at it on a near future term like you. I am looking at it over the next 50 to 75 years. Once that's developed there is no turning back.

    The village lucked out with the St. Mary of the Angels Motherhouse staying green space until after that part of the town was developed. It would be a shame if this land was converted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by leftWNYbecauseofBS View Post
    I left WNY because there was more opportunity elsewhere in my early 20s. What I do does not have an economy in WNY. I did not want to become a 'townie' and wanted to work with technology. That economy did not really exist back then and is now just coming around.

    I grew up in Amherst. I spent my summers as a youth on that course. I have done countless trips on that bike path. People who live south off Main in the town have access to some amazing parks. North of Sheridan is not the same.

    I don't see Amherst slowing down any time soon. I still think there is a great future ahead for developments of both residential and commercial in the northern park of town. I also think that as Buffalo improves...which it is slowly...the southern part of the town is going to see some redevelopment. Both are already happening.

    All of that said, the ability to have a central park in the center of the town is something that they money should be found for. I am not looking at it on a near future term like you. I am looking at it over the next 50 to 75 years. Once that's developed there is no turning back.

    The village lucked out with the St. Mary of the Angels Motherhouse staying green space until after that part of the town was developed. It would be a shame if this land was converted.
    I'm not looking at it in the near future either. Once that property is off the tax rolls and converted to a park it's off the rolls for good. The money should be found for lots of things. Unfortunately it seems the first place they look is in my wallett and the wallets of my neighbors. Perhaps because you left (apparently not because of the bull**** but for better opportunity. This puts you among thousands and thousands who did the same.) you 're not aware that NY'ers pay the highest taxes in the country and WNY pays some of the highest in NY. I'd just as soon that we leave property on the tax rolls so that the next 50 to 75 years of Amherst residents don't have even greater tax burdens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grump View Post
    I'm not looking at it in the near future either. Once that property is off the tax rolls and converted to a park it's off the rolls for good. The money should be found for lots of things. Unfortunately it seems the first place they look is in my wallett and the wallets of my neighbors. Perhaps because you left (apparently not because of the bull**** but for better opportunity. This puts you among thousands and thousands who did the same.) you 're not aware that NY'ers pay the highest taxes in the country and WNY pays some of the highest in NY. I'd just as soon that we leave property on the tax rolls so that the next 50 to 75 years of Amherst residents don't have even greater tax burdens.

    OK. Let's look at some numbers..

    • The current country club pays $36,381.00 in Town/County taxes and $47,137.90 in School taxes. That's a good amount of money for sure but it's not massive.
    • In comparison, 60 Maple Rd which is a single story medical building pays $29,450.30 in Town/County taxes and $55,385.60 in School taxes.
    • A 3 story office building built in the 80s at 6245 Sheridan Dr pays $46,262.80 in Town/County taxes and $71,649.70 in School taxes.
    Now Mensch Capital Partners have put out a 238 million redevelopment plan that they say would generate around $58M in taxes BUT it would cost $25M to support when you consider police, schools and the like. THIS IS ALSO factoring in a complete build out which they do not have the financing for yet and are not going to guarantee.

    Unlike Office space, which pays high taxes INCLUDING schools, it does not require a major increase in police coverage or burden the school districts. They pay a lot and take very little. So with that said, it's pretty damn obvious that office development is ideal.

    Now you have to deal with the Audubon and Par3 figures. To the best of my ability in looking at the town budget, it appears the Audubon and Par3 courses bring in about $500k before you deduct the cost of course labor or maintenance. Let's say these courses cost the TOA $250k. If this project were to happen, Amherst would be 'stuck' with a poor course and never have the ability to create a park.


    So how COULD it have worked if the TOA had vision?


    1 - They should have purchased the Westwood property for more than the $2.5M Mensch paid. The could offer $4M right now.

    2 - They then could have moved Audubon to Westwood and used the Country Club, pools and all of the facilities for town use. This would give the residents of the town a much better course AND they could have raised greens fees to non residents because it would be one of the better public courses in the region.

    3 - After this they could have opened up 5 parcels fronting Maple where Audubon sits and set those for development of office space. They would have EASILY been developed and based on the above numbers would have easily projected at over $125K per year per parcel. The first would more than cover the cost of the lost revenue from Westwood. It would actually produce about $40K more. The remaining 4 parcels would generate about $500K in revenue. Half of this could be used to pay down the $4M purchase price. The other half could be used to cover the cost of of the new course.


    After the Westwood purchase is paid for, the town would be bringing in about $250K more a year than it does today. All the while it added a massive park, improved the towns course AND kept the cost of schools and police down.


    But hey...you can wag your finger and talk about taxes without any interested in looking at the numbers in detail. GET OFF MY LAWN.

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