smoking

[BlueCamel]

I would like to know where all you non-smokers are? I work in a local bar and restaurant, and since the smoking ban went into place business is way down!! Well the air is clear now and where are all the non-smokers who claimed they stayed away because of the smoke???

[colossus27]

Originally posted by BlueCamel
I would like to know where all you non-smokers are? I work in a local bar and restaurant, and since the smoking ban went into place business is way down!! Well the air is clear now and where are all the non-smokers who claimed they stayed away because of the smoke???

Probably gleaning the net for more junk science statistics to justify their next power grab.

Head over to Netflix and rent the first season of Penn and Teller's "bull*&^&" for more on these idiots.

The secondhand smoke 'science' is completely, utterly, without foundation.

[Stevenco]

Originally posted by BlueCamel
I would like to know where all you non-smokers are? I work in a local bar and restaurant, and since the smoking ban went into place business is way down!! Well the air is clear now and where are all the non-smokers who claimed they stayed away because of the smoke???

Well, I am a non smoker. I can't speak for all of us, but maybe the same sort that thinks consciously inhaling incinerating toxins into your lungs is more brain damaged than throwing away money on overpriced alcohol.

[colossus27]

Originally posted by Stevenco
Well, I am a non smoker. I can't speak for all of us, but maybe the same sort that thinks consciously inhaling incinerating toxins into your lungs is more brain damaged than throwing away money on overpriced alcohol.

I don't smoke, I don't like secondhand smoke, and I'm at the age where drinking bores me.

I don't like seeing locally owned businesses get screwed by the idiots that run the state. Evidently putting in all the hardware needed to have a non-smoking area wasn't enough. So after the restaurant owners wasted all that money, they banned it outright anyway.

When something like this happens, there's a change. You can't get to a local mom-and-pop restaurant/bar anymore. They've folded. So now you get the Choice of going to some deep pocketed corporate cookie-cutter crap like Appleby's or TGIFriday's. The money doesn't stay local, it goes to stockholders. Smokers are herded outside to shiver and get wet in our long winter.

Despite paying absurdly high taxes on a vice that the government won't ban outright.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by colossus27
Probably gleaning the net for more junk science statistics to justify their next power grab.

Head over to Netflix and rent the first season of Penn and Teller's "bull*&^&" for more on these idiots.

The secondhand smoke 'science' is completely, utterly, without foundation.

I love that show. They are wrong about the second hand smoke deal, though.

I mean, I understand that there are people that smoke that don't get cancer. They are lucky. There was a woman I used to visit at a nursing home that was 99 years old and smoked a pack a day every day since she was 13. She had a shot of whiskey every morning. She didn't die of cancer. She didn't even have cancer....

The studies aren't wrong, nor are the statistics. Brief periods of secondhand smoke inhalation aren't going to kill you. Going to a bar and standing next to a person that's smoking won't guarantee you a lung transplant and a lifelong need to take immunosuppressive drugs. Longer term exposure, however, does increase your chances greatly - especially for children.

[colossus27]

Originally posted by ERIEMAN
I love that show. They are wrong about the second hand smoke deal, though.

Longer term exposure, however, does increase your chances greatly - especially for children.

This supposition is invalid.

The American Journal of Epidemiology, in a report dated April 2003, stated "We found a rather remarkably low SMR [standardized incidence ratio] for lung cancer among female cabin attendants and no increase for male cabin attendants, indicating that smoking and exposure to passive smoking may not play an important role in mortality in this group. Smoking during airplane flights was permitted in Germany until the mid-1990s, and smoking is still not banned on all charter flights. The risk of cardiovascular disease mortality for male and female air crew was surprisingly low (reaching statistical significance among women)."

Cabin attendants saw long term secondhand exposure when smoking was allowed.

I don't have time to find a report yet but I'll address your point regarding children shortly.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by colossus27
This supposition is invalid.

The American Journal of Epidemiology, in a report dated April 2003, stated "We found a rather remarkably low SMR [standardized incidence ratio] for lung cancer among female cabin attendants and no increase for male cabin attendants, indicating that smoking and exposure to passive smoking may not play an important role in mortality in this group. Smoking during airplane flights was permitted in Germany until the mid-1990s, and smoking is still not banned on all charter flights. The risk of cardiovascular disease mortality for male and female air crew was surprisingly low (reaching statistical significance among women)."

Cabin attendants saw long term secondhand exposure when smoking was allowed.

I don't have time to find a report yet but I'll address your point regarding children shortly.

Are you an oncologist?

[colossus27]

Originally posted by ERIEMAN
Are you an oncologist?

No.

[ERIEMAN]

Originally posted by colossus27
No.

Let's say you are right. Let's say that the epidemiology study was the end-all of secondhand smoke studies, and that the incidence of lung cancer does not increase in the long-term presence of second hand smoke.

Would you still want your kids (or family members for those without kids) to be around smoke all day?

Years ago, my roommate and I smoked a LOT during the day. I saw teh inside of my old apartment recently and the walls were almost brown from the smoke. Breathing that stuff in could not have been healthy!

I'm the worst kind of anti-smoker. I smoked for 13 years, quit three years ago, and I'm currently on a rather productive health kick. You'll find that ex-smokers love to brag about quitting as much as we love to scoff at the people that still smoke. To top off my disdain for smoking, I hear the "stories" when my wife comes home from work.

And yet, I completely disagree with the smoking bans in bars and restaurants. I think that restaurants did a great job of containing smoke, and that smoking and drinking go hand-in-hand for all-day smokers and social smokers alike and should never have been banned form bars. I make the choice to go to a bar with the understanding that there will be smoke in the air. I feel like **** when i go home, but that's my choice. If i didn't like it, im not about to make people stop.

[colossus27]

Originally posted by ERIEMAN
Let's say you are right. Let's say that the epidemiology study was the end-all of secondhand smoke studies, and that the incidence of lung cancer does not increase in the long-term presence of second hand smoke.

Would you still want your kids (or family members for those without kids) to be around smoke all day?

Years ago, my roommate and I smoked a LOT during the day. I saw teh inside of my old apartment recently and the walls were almost brown from the smoke. Breathing that stuff in could not have been healthy!

I'm the worst kind of anti-smoker. I smoked for 13 years, quit three years ago, and I'm currently on a rather productive health kick. You'll find that ex-smokers love to brag about quitting as much as we love to scoff at the people that still smoke. To top off my disdain for smoking, I hear the "stories" when my wife comes home from work.

And yet, I completely disagree with the smoking bans in bars and restaurants. I think that restaurants did a great job of containing smoke, and that smoking and drinking go hand-in-hand for all-day smokers and social smokers alike and should never have been banned form bars. I make the choice to go to a bar with the understanding that there will be smoke in the air. I feel like **** when i go home, but that's my choice. If i didn't like it, im not about to make people stop.

Is there an end-all study? I don' think so but there is nothing published that establishes an epidemiologically valid cause.

Statistically speaking, a study based on secondhand smoke requires controls and blocking that make it difficult to implement properly. What if some of the people worked in coal mines or changed asbestos brakepads? It's difficult to prove direct correlation, and even harder from a 'secondhand' perspective. The fact I consider most telling is that significantly more smokers do not have lung cancer than do.

That said, I completely agree with your points...my fiance smokes too so I know where you're coming from

My issue is the State taking this issue upon themselves, foisting logic based on junk science, and hammering business owners into compliance.

[sharky]

I'm a non smoker, hate the smell (except for certain pipe tobacco, pipe tobacco sometimes smells ok), won't let people smoke in my car or apartment.
I'm 100% against the ban and wrote multiple state politicians urging them not to pass it.

Erie County's compromise of having restaurants have completely sealed off smoking areas was a decent idea.
Total ban is lame. If the anti-smoking-nazis wanted a smoke free bar so bad they should have opened their own. From the way they talked they should have had no problems making a profit.

I'll admit it's nice to be able to go to a bar and not need a shower when I get home to get the smell out, but going to a smoke filled bar was my choice. I never felt others should be forced to not smoke in a pubic area or in a building/car/etc owned by someone else because I didn't like the smell.
I don't go to my friends' houses and tell them not to smoke while I'm there

[Stevenco]

Just stop it. Don't give me any bull**** about how it relaxes you, neither. Do it not for me nor anyone else. Do it for you. It's bad for you. Period.

[BlueCamel]

I am not even considering the fact that smoking is bad for you! I am just pointing out that business is way down since the ban went into place!! Wake up everybody! Look at how many small businesses are going out of business or are on the brink of bankruptcy. The government is killing erie county, there is no more middle class. Between the outragous taxes and fees it is no longer worth it to be in business for yourself! Proof that the smoking ban has hurt the corner ginmills and restaurants is in the fact that sales are way up for liquer stores. People now choose to drink at home. So, my question still stands, where are all you loudmouth non-smokers who could not frequent these establishments because of all the harmful smoke?@#!#

[300miles]

I'm a non-smoker. I go out to bars every weekend and love it now that my clothes and hair don't reak of smoke when I get home. My contacts no longer dry out after 2 hours in a bar. And I don't have to breath in someone else's toxic fumes just because they have a personal addiction they can't control. The bars are still crowded.

Most bars do not see a problem with this law. Have you ever considered that maybe the bar you hang out has other problems besides the smoking issue?

Look at the restaurant Jimmy Macs. The previous owner closed it down whining about how he lost all his business from the smoking law. Now it's reopened in the same location under the same name and it's doing just fine.

[colossus27]

Originally posted by 300miles
Look at the restaurant Jimmy Macs. The previous owner closed it down whining about how he lost all his business from the smoking law. Now it's reopened in the same location under the same name and it's doing just fine.

Let me get this straight. The government forces somebody out of business, the justification being lies, bad science, and outright strongarming.

And you're OK with this because NOW somebody else is "doing just fine"? Incredible. Absolutely incredible.