Reactions are strong to school idea

[steven]

Community leaders Thursday reacted strongly - pro and con - to Buffalo School Superintendent James A. Williams' proposal that recipients of public assistance be required to attend programs on helping their children succeed in school.
"It's a good idea," said the Rev. Kinzer M. Pointer, president of Buffalo's District Parent Coordinating Council. "It's about making everyone accountable. If we help these parents, we help their children. We ought to be using whatever means we have at our disposal to get people up and on their feet."

John A. Curr III, acting director of the Western Region of the New York Civil Liberties Union, disagreed. He said the proposal is "very scary" and "irresponsible," and feeds negative stereotypes of those who receive public assistance. "The government shouldn't be acting as a parent," Curr said. "Where does it stop? What other requirements do we put on people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances in the first place?"

Williams made the suggestion Wednesday during an educational summit in Albany and discussed it further in a telephone interview Thursday.

While the lack of parental involvement and supervision is hardly confined to families on public assistance, the level of poverty in Buffalo is so high that tying training to assistance payments is a sure way to involve a lot of people, Williams said.

He said parents should make sure that their children get a good night's sleep and a healthy breakfast, assistance in doing their homework, and lots of encouragement and attention. They also should ensure that free time is spent reading rather than watching television, he said.

"All these things are free, but we need to train our parents to focus on them," he said.

Marlies A. Wesolowski, executive director of the Lt. Col. Matt Urban Human Service Center, 1081 Broadway, said that parental involvement in their children's education is often badly lacking, and that required training could be a plus.

"A big part of the problem is that parents don't know how to be helpful," said Wesolowski, who was a Board of Education member for nine years and the board president for two years. "Unfortunately, children don't come with instruction books. Sometimes you need an outside voice to help."

Buffalo Teachers Federation President Philip Rumore said that parents across all social and economic lines fail to be involved in their children's education and that Williams' proposal places on unfair stigma on recipients of public assistance.

Instead of tackling problems head-on, Rumore contended, Williams blames parents, teachers or contract provisions.

"There's a blame game going on here," Rumore said. "There comes a time in everyone's professional life where they have to say: "This is what exists. What do we do about it?' "

Williams said that urban education is failing badly - here and across the nation - and that "a community approach" is needed.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...04/1032529.asp

[Night Owl]

John A. Curr III, acting director of the Western Region of the New York Civil Liberties Union, disagreed. He said the proposal is "very scary" and "irresponsible," and feeds negative stereotypes of those who receive public assistance. "The government shouldn't be acting as a parent," Curr said. "Where does it stop? What other requirements do we put on people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances in the first place?"

and

Buffalo Teachers Federation President Philip Rumore said that parents across all social and economic lines fail to be involved in their children's education and that Williams' proposal places on unfair stigma on recipients of public assistance.

Who? What? Huh???

Are you now going to accept the fact that I said Williams turned this into an "Income" thing first?

I'll requote something I said since the thread seems to be missing...

This isn't about me, it's about the head of the Buffalo Public school system discriminating over "low-income" based on what HE SAID!

Williams said it all himself and the Buffalo news printed it.

[Night Owl]

How about moving the first thread back to the "buffalo politics" board so that other can see more of the points I made on this very same topic?

[moonshine]

Williams said that urban education is failing badly - here and across the nation - and that "a community approach" is needed.

So we need a new bureaucracy (training) to bailout a failed bureaucracy (government schools). Makes perfect sense to me.

Never underestimate the ability of government to create its own demand.

[crlachepinochet]

While the lack of parental involvement and supervision is hardly confined to families on public assistance, the level of poverty in Buffalo is so high that tying training to assistance payments is a sure way to involve a lot of people, Williams said.

Did you miss the above, or do you just not believe it?

When the parents aren't involved, it's harder for kids to do well in school... and the parents certainly aren't involved in Buffalo. Many people have appealed to local parents to get involved, but people won't do these things unless they have to. I feel like Williams is just trying to do everything he can; he knows people won't do things unless they're forced to.

The "gov't shouldn't be a parent" argument is a moot point when you're talking about people on public assistance... how much more parent-like can you get than giving people an "allowance"? Besides, the gov't already sets down rules... you have to prove you're looking for a job when you're on unemployment... you can't buy alcohol with food stamps...

[WNYresident]

"The government shouldn't be acting as a parent," Curr said. "Where does it stop? What other requirements do we put on people who find themselves in unfortunate circumstances in the first place?"

The requirement is to stop the cycle from repeating itself as it has.

Shouldn't act as a parent? Doesn't seem to have an issue with the "parent" handing money over.

[y2000]

Originally posted by crlachepinochet

l... and the parents certainly aren't involved in Buffalo.

You need to clarify your intended meaning behind this line. If it's what I think you mean then I agree, if I follow just as its written then I think your a jerk.

[Night Owl]

Many people have appealed to local parents to get involved, but people won't do these things unless they have to. I feel like Williams is just trying to do everything he can; he knows people won't do things unless they're forced to.

This is something that applies to all parents, not the selected few recieving public assistance, as Williams indicated in the article from yesterday.

I made a very clear point in saying (in the other thread that has disappeared) that Williams' approach on getting parents involved should not have singled-out "low income" and "welfare" students. He is the super to over-see all of the children in the Buffalo School system as a whole, not make discriminating attacks on those of limited means.

Even if the whole City system is true, Williams showed and spoke openly on a strong, negative perception of the parents and children of low-income families.

In the other thread, I said He (Williams) clearly labeled welfared kids with his comments (from yesterday's article in the Buffalo News), comments from today's atricle that seem to be what others saw as well.

Another point I made in the other thread was If this were a topic of ALL children in general, he'd have not mentioned low-income and welfare at all.

I have no problem with ways to get parents more involved, it was the generalization Williams put on "low-income" that has me not sitting right. Apperently, from today's article, I am not alone in having a concern for the disavantaged.

Oh dam! I went off topic again...... how ever do I keep doing that?

[crlachepinochet]

I meant that surveys done of parents of BPS kids show that they help out their kids with homework and things like that less than their peers around the country. I'll see if I can find a link to any studies. I think these parents need to be doing everything they can to help their children succeed. Like Williams said, there are lots of free things parents can do. I hope that's the agreeable meaning and not the jerk meaning.

I believe that targeting people on public assistance is totally about control, not classism. If people aren't helping their kids with their schoolwork, then appealing to them won't do much. Because the government is giving people money, the government has a larger degree of control over these people than they do the average person. The gov't sets conditions for getting their money all the time.

[Night Owl]

I meant that surveys done of parents of BPS kids show that they help out their kids with homework and things like that less than their peers around the country. I'll see if I can find a link to any studies. I think these parents need to be doing everything they can to help their children succeed. Like Williams said, there are lots of free things parents can do. I hope that's the agreeable meaning and not the jerk meaning.

oh, you are sooo right.

I believe that targeting people on public assistance is totally about control, not classism. If people aren't helping their kids with their schoolwork, then appealing to them won't do much. Because the government is giving people money, the government has a larger degree of control over these people than they do the average person. The gov't sets conditions for getting their money all the time.

Oh,. you are sooo right again.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by y2000
You need to clarify your intended meaning behind this line. If it's what I think you mean then I agree, if I follow just as its written then I think your a jerk.

He's not a jerk, he's being realistic. There's a lot of people in buffalo helping thier kids. Sadly though there are a lot that are not. JUST like it is in every town in the area buffalo just may have a higher number of these situations. This situation happens every where around WNY but buffalo may have more of these situations.


y2000,

how do you take it as written versus what you think he really intended it to mean.

[WNYresident]

This is something that applies to all parents, not the selected few recieving public assistance, as Williams indicated in the article from yesterday.

I made a very clear point in saying (in the other thread that has disappeared) that Williams' approach on getting parents involved should not have singled-out "low income" and "welfare" students. He is the super to over-see all of the children in the Buffalo School system as a whole, not make discriminating attacks on those of limited means.

Nightowl? After surveying the situation in the BPS they came to the conclusion that students of parents who are very low income on assistance have a harder time in school. It's a fact.

It happens at all income levels but the CONCENTRATION of it is from families who are on "assistance". The problem the community is facing is that "assistance" is getting very expensive. (plus remember how we are burdened with a very EXPENSIVE WNY/NY government.) In order to change the cycle you need to help the children get a good education.

It's funny how you say we shouldn't classify people but it's ok to classify them enough to give them assisistance. Or classify them that they need libraries in the city of buffalo for a better education. But then when someone says we need to classify them for "how to give your child the best shot in school" you say it's wrong.

You right that we shouldn't group people, we are one big community but the situation in the BPS needs to be addressed. We might not like our answers or how we need to fix the problem but the problem has to be fixed never the less.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by crlachepinochet
I meant that surveys done of parents of BPS kids show that they help out their kids with homework and things like that less than their peers around the country. I'll see if I can find a link to any studies. I think these parents need to be doing everything they can to help their children succeed. Like Williams said, there are lots of free things parents can do. I hope that's the agreeable meaning and not the jerk meaning.

I believe that targeting people on public assistance is totally about control, not classism. If people aren't helping their kids with their schoolwork, then appealing to them won't do much. Because the government is giving people money, the government has a larger degree of control over these people than they do the average person. The gov't sets conditions for getting their money all the time.

Ditto.

[crlachepinochet]

And even right or wrong, Williams isn't a bad guy for thinking of things like this. His job is to do the best he can for the kids, and only for the kids. His job is parochial; he doesn't really have to keep the best interests of all the city in mind. His goal every year should be to get 100% of the city's budget sent to the schools. A police chief, a fire chief, a highway commish... they should be doing everything they can to perform their service perfectly. It's just other people's jobs to keep everyone in check.

And I never meant to generalize about ALL parents in Buffalo. Regardless of income, some people will ignore their kids and some will be their biggest cheerleaders. However, that doesn't make it less true that poorer kids tend to do worse in school. Some people will argue that the poverty level in a classroom is a better predictor of standardized test scores than $ spent per pupil, class size, time spent in school, etc. Even if they're wrong, they're not that far off.

This is something I found very interesting:

"There's a blame game going on here," Rumore said. "There comes a time in everyone's professional life where they have to say: "This is what exists. What do we do about it?' "

With that quote in mind, what do we think the BTF's plan is for doing something about it?

[Night Owl]

Nightowl? After surveying the situation in the BPS they came to the conclusion that students of parents who are very low income on assistance have a harder time in school. It's a fact.

Oh, you are soooo right.