What Waterfront?

[LHardy]

A good question brought up by Tomac and Buffy

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by buffy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Can you imagine Dennis Gabryzak & Susan Grelick putting aside egos to agree on the Buffalo waterfront!

Tomac
They'd have to if they wanted to get anything done for their towns....

Buffy
What waterfront?

Tomac
Indeed....
The Buffalo waterfront?
The Lackawanna waterfront?
Or the Hamburg waterfront?
Or the NFTA waterfront (that they'll never want to give up willingly!

Maybe the individual towns should be responsible for their own property...

With the proposed supervisors board coming up for discussion, how would this get done?
If each town controls their own section of the water front how will all of Erie County use the waterfront?
Fees by the individual towns?
State imposed Fees forcing towns to forfiet land rights to the waterfront?

What a problem this will be!

[buffy]

OMG it will be ten years

[Night Owl]

I notice LHardy accidentally felt out my quote of waterfront development/redevelopment being a New York State law. So I will save you the trouble of adding this important peice of New York Legislation here for you.

§ 910. Legislative findings. The legislature hereby finds that New York state's coastal area and inland waterways are unique with a variety of natural, recreational, industrial, commercial, ecological, cultural, aesthetic and energy resources of statewide and national significance.

The resources of the state's coastal areas and inland waterways are increasingly subject to the pressures of population growth and economic development, which include requirements for industry, commerce, residential development, recreation and for the production of energy. These competing demands result in the loss of living marine resources and wildlife, the diminution of open space areas, shoreline erosion, permanent, adverse changes to ecological systems and a loss of economic opportunities.

The social and economic well-being and the general welfare of the people of the state are critically dependent upon the preservation, enhancement, protection, development and use of the natural and man-made resources of the state's coastal area and inland waterways.

The legislature further finds that it is in the interest of the people of the state that coordinated and comprehensive policy and planning for preservation, enhancement, protection, development and use of the state's coastal and inland waterway resources take place to insure the proper balance between natural resources and the need to accommodate the needs of population growth and economic development.

[LHardy]

Did you notice this is a feel good law that states.
Hey guys we do care about the waterfront.

Unfortunately it doesn't state how things will be done. It just states it should be done.
It is a do nothing law.
Typical of our leaders.

[LHardy]

Right now in Hamburg unless you are a resident you can not use the beach . Not certian about the boat launch.

[Night Owl]

Unfortunately it doesn't state how things will be done. It just states it should be done.
It is a do nothing law.
Typical of our leaders.

My bad for bringing it up then. No need to mention that redevelopment of the waterfront has been a campaign tool for many years and for may politicians just to get elected. No sense of accountablity on this action.

[LHardy]

Your point is correct. They do use it as a tool for election. That is why the law is so vaque and without teeth. They all can say,"We support! We suppport!". Yet do nothing.
How many generations do we have to talk about this before step one is even taken?

[Night Owl]

They do use it as a tool for election.

And what do you propose we do about it? IMO- Ignoring it and/or accidentally leaving it out of conversations on the message boards isn't going to send a message to the viewing people at the County of even State levels know that we know this "law" exsists and what they are doing with it just to get elected.

IMO- and I may be wrong again... but these are things where we need to let them know we know about.

My thought.... just redevelop the dam waterfront and get it over with instead of dragging it out for years and campaigns.

[tomac]

Originally posted by LHardy

A good question brought up by Tomac and Buffy
With the proposed supervisors board coming up for discussion, how would this get done?
If each town controls their own section of the water front how will all of Erie County use the waterfront?

Maybe Erie County shouldn't determine how that land is used. What has it done so far? Its given control over to the NFTA and they've dithered around and done nothing except to put a couple of restaurants that tried to do business there out of business. Other than that, they'd sealed it off from public access and thumbed their collective noses at the taxpayers.
Why?
Because they're appointed and not beholden to anybody.

Fees by the individual towns?

Already there, they're called "Town Taxes"

State imposed Fees forcing towns to forfiet land rights to the waterfront?
What a problem this will be!

The Towns (and the citizens of the State of New York) have the right to walk on any beach in New York State (its called Reparien [probably misspelled, sorry] Rights) so why should the State tell them to forfeit those rights? If you wanted to walk along the beach from the Pennsylvania State Line to the Thousand Islands, you should be able to, but along Northern Hamburg - Lackawanna-Buffalo, that's pretty much impossible.
The only area that I know for sure that Reparien Rights don't exist is along the Power Project (because of safety issues)

[tomac]

Originally posted by LHardy
Right now in Hamburg unless you are a resident you can not use the beach . Not certian about the boat launch.

Well I know that you can't park your car in their park, but I've swum in their beach many times as a kid when I lived in Cheektowaga. As long as you don't cause trouble and as long as you play by their rules (well posted the last time I was there) nobody will give you trouble.
According to the law, the public has a right of way along the edge of the water, so "private beaches" really don't exist except in the minds of a few.

[tomac]

Originally posted by LHardy
Your point is correct. They do use it as a tool for election. That is why the law is so vaque and without teeth. They all can say,"We support! We suppport!". Yet do nothing.
How many generations do we have to talk about this before step one is even taken?

And when that "tool" is finally used who'll be served?
The taxpayer or some crony that dumped a bazillion dollar$ for the political campaign?
And when Joel's theme park is built (hopefully never) will the taxpayer be able to enjoy it for just the cost of his taxes?
When will the politicans stop stealing from the taxpayer to line the pockets of a few?
Connected Consultants
Connected Vendors
People scream about "redistribution of the wealth" with welfare, but is this any different?

[LHardy]

posted by night owl
- Ignoring it and/or accidentally leaving it out of conversations on the message boards

NO:
Back off or you will not like my responses to you! I will not give you anymore room for your childish attacks. I did not ignore nor accidently leave out your posting of the law. It is not my job to remember everything that is posted on this MB. If I missed something of relevenace, wouldn't it have been better to say "LHardy. I posted this in another thread and I feel it pertians to what you are talking about in this thread." and then post it.
Instead you wish to make it look as if I am ignoring you on purpose. I assure you, I am not!

posted by tomac
Well I know that you can't park your car in their park, but I've swum in their beach many times as a kid when I lived in Cheektowaga. As long as you don't cause trouble and as long as you play by their rules (well posted the last time I was there) nobody will give you trouble.

Last time I was there this summer. I parked to eat my lunch between appointments. They came over and kicked me out because I didn't have a residency permit. They now seem to be enforcing that rule even for swimming.

[Night Owl]

Back off or you will not like my responses to you! I will not give you anymore room for your childish attacks. I did not ignore nor accidently leave out your posting of the law. It is not my job to remember everything that is posted on this MB.

LHardy, I was just giving my opinion and wasn't trying to reflect anything on to you personally. I was just speaking in general. My whole sentence, with the most important part was:

IMO- Ignoring it and/or accidentally leaving it out of conversations on the message boards isn't going to send a message to the viewing people at the County of even State levels know that we know this "law" exsists and what they are doing with it just to get elected.

But I did ask a question.

And what do you propose we do about it?

[tomac]

Originally posted by LHardy
Last time I was there this summer. I parked to eat my lunch between appointments. They came over and kicked me out because I didn't have a residency permit. They now seem to be enforcing that rule even for swimming.

As I said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
posted by tomac
Well I know that you can't park your car in their park, but I've swum in their beach many times as a kid when I lived in Cheektowaga. As long as you don't cause trouble and as long as you play by their rules (well posted the last time I was there) nobody will give you trouble.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We used to park down the street and walk into the park. And we weren't the only out-of-towners there either.