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Thread: children born out of wedlock

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    To Mike, Sue, Et. all -

    The Man's prominence in the home in previous era's was based on his physical strength and ability to provide sustenance to the family.

    In today's world - Gender doesn't matter when it comes to putting food on the table, anyone can go out in today's work world and earn a living and support a family.

    You're perpetuating the stereotype that each Gender has certain sphere's of influence that are it's sole responsibility, and that attitude is damaging to a child just trying to be themselves when they don't fit into that mold.

    All women being spendthrifts is a logical fallacy, but Sue and Another present it as if it's perfectly natural for the woman to go out and overspend, and that it's the job of the husband to reel their partner in. I can tell you from experience, my Mom was the fiscal conservator, my Dad the one liable to overspending.

    The physical strength of the man is no longer necessary to battle their way to prominence within the tribe, it is now a matter of intelligence and cunning, and both genders share these traits equally.

    The Bravura associated with Manhood (Fallacy though it is) is actually what leads us into most of the trouble we experience in the world. The belief that a man needs to be proud and not give an inch on his position, or show emotions for fear of being seen as less then a man inhibits the ability of true communication to happen.

    It's nice to have that feeling of security, but how much security is a big strong husband in the face of a gun or a knife? How much security is a big strong husband in the face of nuclear war?

    It's a fallacy.

    But, you do have one point correct. Society teaches our men it's ok to not grow up. It's ok to bark like an animal while drinking beer and butting heads with your buddies watching a group of other men hit each other while playing a game of land acquisition. It's ok to leave the cooking and the cleaning and the childcare to your wife, even if they work as many or more hours then you do. It's a sad state of affairs.

    However, I disagree that it has to do with male/female, and more to do with most of the male half of the population being essentially oversized children.

    It doesn't help that the skills that the male of the species evolved for - hunting, protecting, being quiet while stalking the prey through the woods, single-threaded concentration on a single target.... are all contrary to what makes a succesful person in todays fast paced, communication based, multi-threaded business world.
    My take on the above post.

    Men and women are equal, but men are a bunch of bumbling idiots.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surfing USA View Post
    My take on the above post.

    Men and women are equal, but men are a bunch of bumbling idiots.
    Well, Kind of.....

    More along the lines of we need to stop empowering men to remain emotionally crippled adolescents and allow/encourage them to grow up.

    I'm not saying this impacts every man, nor do I think every woman is immune... but it's a comment on American society as a whole.

    That, and who needs men?
    "I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mohandas Gandhi

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    To Mike, Sue, Et. all -The Man's prominence in the home in previous era's was based on his physical strength and ability to provide sustenance to the family.In today's world - Gender doesn't matter when it comes to putting food on the table, anyone can go out in today's work world and earn a living and support a family.
    You are absolutely right. I worked in the corporate world for a long time and met many families with stay at home dad’s because it was financially beneficial for the woman to work. In one case, the woman (a VP for the company) did a lot of travel. They wanted one parent home with the children and it was dad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    You're perpetuating the stereotype that each Gender has certain sphere's of influence that are it's sole responsibility, and that attitude is damaging to a child just trying to be themselves when they don't fit into that mold.
    No, I just posted that the same circumstances that exist in Mesue’s household also exists in mine. If you read my posts, you will find that I generally do not categorize groups of people.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    All women being spendthrifts is a logical fallacy, but Sue and Another present it as if it's perfectly natural for the woman to go out and overspend, and that it's the job of the husband to reel their partner in. I can tell you from experience, my Mom was the fiscal conservator, my Dad the one liable to overspending.
    I wasn’t speaking about women in general. I was just making a point that I like to shop and that there are times I ask my husband (who is more conservative in spending than I) what he thinks about larger purchases

    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    The physical strength of the man is no longer necessary to battle their way to prominence within the tribe, it is now a matter of intelligence and cunning, and both genders share these traits equally.The Bravura associated with Manhood (Fallacy though it is) is actually what leads us into most of the trouble we experience in the world. The belief that a man needs to be proud and not give an inch on his position, or show emotions for fear of being seen as less then a man inhibits the ability of true communication to happen.

    I don’t believe that today’s society thinks any less of a man that shows their emotions. However, I like some of the manly traits I see in my husband and sons.

    For example: If I am out shopping or come home from shopping, my husnand (and sons if they are visiting) are right there to carry in my packages. During holidays celebrations, my sons and husband are right there to host (set up, clean up and host). There’s a difference between manhood fallacies and gentlemen in my opinion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    It's nice to have that feeling of security, but how much security is a big strong husband in the face of a gun or a knife? How much security is a big strong husband in the face of nuclear war?
    My husband put the uniform on during (ROTC) and after college

    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    But, you do have one point correct.
    What a surprise.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Flutter View Post
    Society teaches our men it's ok to not grow up. It's ok to bark like an animal while drinking beer and butting heads with your buddies watching a group of other men hit each other while playing a game of land acquisition. It's ok to leave the cooking and the cleaning and the childcare to your wife, even if they work as many or more hours then you do. It's a sad state of affairs.
    I’ll be the first one to admit that my husband is a child at heart but when it comes to responsibility, he is “very” responsible. Both my husband and I also cook (he mainly grills) and he always and I mean always helps with the clean up and many times all of the clean up. We pitch in on the responsibilities in the home.
    Last edited by Anotherview; March 25th, 2009 at 12:11 PM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    Having a son born out of wedlock, I haven't found any type of scorn or derision aimed at him for that reason.

    The unfortunately byproduct of being born out of wedlock is the often contentious relationship between the parents. THAT is where the child starts to have internal problems, which spills out into their everyday lives and can cause some people to view them differently. It almost seems like sometimes we might be able to attribute some poor attitudes/behaviors to the fallout of the marital status of his parents, but don't directly denigrate anyone based solely upon that marital status (or lack thereof). Am I making sense yet?

    Welcome to my world.....
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
    HipKat's Blog

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesue View Post
    Heck no! You can mention God anytime you want
    But watch when I do it.
    No, I don't feel persecuted. Just stating what normally goes on around here.
    Bzzzzzzzzzzz! Sorry, you're not the martyr today. Your lovely manly-man is though.

    The original question had nothing to do with religion and yet it was dragged back in with gusto.
    If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenold View Post
    The number of babies born out of wedlock has been rising since the 50's.

    1950-1954
    14 percent

    1965-69
    30.4 percent

    http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=944&page=98

    2005
    40 percent

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,509672,00.html

    As society gets more promiscuous and there is no moral high ground the result is not surprising. The world has pushed for men to be marginalized in the home. Women are told by organizations like NOW and the NCWO that a man is not necessary to raise a family. TV shows portray men as bumbling idiots. It is no wonder that women are getting inseminated artificially and some are just having a baby all for themselves. There is no stigma associated with having a baby out of wedlock. Children are taught about sex in grammar school and we are inundated with commercials that shamelessly sell products like Viagra, Cialis, women feminine hygiene products and condoms. It is no wonder that our children are no longer waiting to get married before having children of their own. I fear this is only going to get worse as we are taking God out of everything and are morals are sure to falter even farther. I will only mention the documented problems associated with raising a child in a one parent home. We are only just stating to realize the effects of these social policies foisted on us by the likes of American philosopher, psychologist, and educational reformer John Dewey. It really is a shame on us all.

    And again, welcome to my world....
    Let me articulate this for you:
    "I'm not locked in here with them. They're locked in here with me!!"
    HipKat's Blog

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Depew.to.you View Post
    Bzzzzzzzzzzz! Sorry, you're not the martyr today. Your lovely manly-man is though.

    The original question had nothing to do with religion and yet it was dragged back in with gusto.
    blah, blah blah mesue is so persecuted ... blah, blah blah mesue is such a martyr ... blah, blah blah mesue only talks about God ... blah, blah blah mesue fill in the blank with other trite statements ...

    If you took all those statements out of your posts, you wouldn't have very many posts.
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesue View Post
    blah, blah blah mesue is so persecuted ... blah, blah blah mesue is such a martyr ... blah, blah blah mesue only talks about God ... blah, blah blah mesue fill in the blank with other trite statements ...

    If you took all those statements out of your posts, you wouldn't have very many posts.
    Rich, seeing as the only time I mention things like that is when you and your husband bring religion into an otherwise non-religious conversation. If you're so observant then why haven't you noticed that as well?
    If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Depew.to.you View Post
    Rich, seeing as the only time I mention things like that is when you and your husband bring religion into an otherwise non-religious conversation. If you're so observant then why haven't you noticed that as well?

    Ms Depew: If you read the excerpt about WNY Speakup it says that one purpose of this forum is to discuss religious issues. So I don't believe it is inappropriate to mention God when making a point in a discussion. Mesue mentioned God once in her post (you reference) It was just to make a point about her husband's calling (Christianity). JMO

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Depew.to.you View Post
    Rich, seeing as the only time I mention things like that is when you and your husband bring religion into an otherwise non-religious conversation. If you're so observant then why haven't you noticed that as well?
    You don't have to accept me or affirm who I am, you just have to tolerate me. Just like I tolerate bitchiness and coldness. I don't accept them as befitting a woman, but I tolerate that there are bitchy cold woman out there.
    Last edited by mesue; March 25th, 2009 at 04:12 PM.
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesue View Post
    You don't have to accept me or affirm who I am, you just have to tolerate me. Just like I tolerate bitchiness and coldness. I don't accept them as befitting a woman, but I tolerate that there are bitchy cold woman out there.
    You didn't answer my question. Do you have a reading comprehension issue?
    If you don't like gay marriage blame straight people. They're the ones who keep having gay babies.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mesue View Post
    You don't watch too much TV do you?
    Men are portrayed as dumb, ill quipped to lead their families and unmasculine. Men are not needed in TV society. They're only good for mowing the lawn and drinking beer. While women are portrayed as holding all wisdom, and the leader of the family.
    I can only speak on a personal level in saying that in my house my husband is the leader of our family. He makes much wiser decisions than I in a lot of areas of our lives. I don't like hearing "No." but I have learned over the years that he has good reason and he has the family's best interest at heart. (Usually "No" means no extra spending) He provides well for this family on all levels and in all aspects of our lives together. He's a man's man. He is the leader in our family. He is the leader God called him to be. I wouldn't have him any other way.
    Actualy, no, I don't watch a lot of TV.
    But, if men are marginalized on TV, so what? Whatever way a man is portrayed on TV has absolutely zero effect on me.
    And, any man that is upset by that best look elsewhere for his real source of inadequacy feelings.

    And, if you're happy being subservient to your husband, then good for him. And, good for you as well.

    Don't take this the wrong way, but, dogs, too, need to know who's boss. And, if that relationship works well for you (and, it obviously does,) then God speed.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikenold View Post
    It still doesn't make the marginalization right.
    Yeah, I guess you're right, but I just don't see it.
    I still think a person's self-worth can only be defined by his or her own self.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms.Depew.to.you View Post
    Rich, seeing as the only time I mention things like that is when you and your husband bring religion into an otherwise non-religious conversation. If you're so observant then why haven't you noticed that as well?
    Typical Liberal comment.

  15. #45
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    Sorry, this is not posted to call you, specifically, out
    Quote Originally Posted by therising View Post
    ... God speed.
    Where's the outrage!
    First Amendment rights are like muscles, if you don't exercise them they will atrophy.

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