children born out of wedlock

[mesue]

Men who are apt to feel marginalized, will feel marginalized. Any man who feels that society is beating him down, for being a man, isn't much of man, anyway.

You don't watch too much TV do you?
Men are portrayed as dumb, ill quipped to lead their families and unmasculine. Men are not needed in TV society. They're only good for mowing the lawn and drinking beer. While women are portrayed as holding all wisdom, and the leader of the family.
I can only speak on a personal level in saying that in my house my husband is the leader of our family. He makes much wiser decisions than I in a lot of areas of our lives. I don't like hearing "No." but I have learned over the years that he has good reason and he has the family's best interest at heart. (Usually "No" means no extra spending) He provides well for this family on all levels and in all aspects of our lives together. He's a man's man. He is the leader in our family. He is the leader God called him to be. I wouldn't have him any other way.

[mikenold]

Men who are apt to feel marginalized, will feel marginalized. Any man who feels that society is beating him down, for being a man, isn't much of man, anyway.

I agree, for men like you and me this stuff is just claptrap. And there are plenty of women out there that do not accept this nonsense from the womens organizations either and do want a man to be in their life and a part of their family. It still doesn't make the marginalization right.

[FMD]

If we americans have any chance of holding our own in our country, we need to start pumping out MORE babies.

[Flutter]

Wow this thread is meandering.

Anyways, to answer the question asked....

I don't think it's frowned upon nearly as much as it was in the past.

I also think the stigma is evaporating.

I personally take great exception to it though, because the Catholic Church considers me to be a bastard, born out of wedlock, despite the fact my parents were married for 33 years until the day my father died. Because of a 3 year mistake at age 18 that they refused to annul, they wouldn't recognize my Fathers second, and actual lasting marriage.

Did the knowledge that the Catholic Church considered me a bastard color my thinking towards all Catholics? Probably.

I have trouble believing any organization that would so cavalierly toss such a title at an infant can be inherently good.

[Anotherview]

He makes much wiser decisions than I in a lot of areas of our lives. I don't like hearing "No." but I have learned over the years that he has good reason and he has the family's best interest at heart. (Usually "No" means no extra spending)

I have a husband at home just like your husband and it's a good thing. I love to shop and can buy just about anything I want. However, when it comes to the large ticket items, I have sense enough to run it by my husband because he is sensible enough to advise whether we really need it or not. This all happened within the first year of our marriage. I accepted an offer for a magazine service and what I ended up signing was an agreement (I didn't know it at the time) to purchase $565.00 worth of magazines. If you think $565.00 of magazines sounds like a lot today, think about what it meant 20 years ago.

[Ms.Depew.to.you]

Here we go with the God crap again....

[Anotherview]

Here we go with the God crap again....

Hi: Were you referring to my post?

[mikenold]

Here we go with the God crap again....

Here we go with this clap trap again...

[MoreOfTheSame]

I personally take great exception to it though, because the Catholic Church considers me to be a bastard, born out of wedlock, despite the fact my parents were married for 33 years until the day my father died. Because of a 3 year mistake at age 18 that they refused to annul, they wouldn't recognize my Fathers second, and actual lasting marriage.

Did the knowledge that the Catholic Church considered me a bastard color my thinking towards all Catholics? Probably.

I have trouble believing any organization that would so cavalierly toss such a title at an infant can be inherently good.

Would the Catholic church refuse to take your money? Probably not. They'd likely consider it just to be as green as everybody else's.

Personally the Catholic church has no moral authority in my eyes to speak on any issue. Look at how they covered up all those priests committing sexual abuse like it was nothing, yet they still demonize homosexuals and spread information that is factually incorrect and puts many people at risk.

[mesue]

Hi: Were you referring to my post?

Heck no! You can mention God anytime you want
But watch when I do it.
No, I don't feel persecuted. Just stating what normally goes on around here.

[Anotherview]

Wow this thread is meandering.

Anyways, to answer the question asked....

I don't think it's frowned upon nearly as much as it was in the past.

I also think the stigma is evaporating.

I personally take great exception to it though, because the Catholic Church considers me to be a bastard, born out of wedlock, despite the fact my parents were married for 33 years until the day my father died. Because of a 3 year mistake at age 18 that they refused to annul, they wouldn't recognize my Fathers second, and actual lasting marriage.

Did the knowledge that the Catholic Church considered me a bastard color my thinking towards all Catholics? Probably.

I have trouble believing any organization that would so cavalierly toss such a title at an infant can be inherently good.

The Christian Revival back in the 70's sent out a loud message to the Catholic Church in that they were not going to accept the man made laws of the Church any longer but instead the law of God. When enough Catholics left the Church to join non-denominational or other denominational churches that preached the Bible, the Catholic Church started with their renewal groups, prayer groups, etc.

I taught religious instruction classes (most Sacrament of Confirmation) for 16 years and was able to teach my students about having a relationship with Jesus Christ. The Catholic Church has really relaxed their views over the years but still has a long way to go imo.

[Anotherview]

But watch when I do it.

I've noticed.

[Anotherview]

Heck no! You can mention God anytime you want
But watch when I do it.
No, I don't feel persecuted. Just stating what normally goes on around here.

I think Ms. Depew has me on ignore. She/he never answers my questions.

[mikenold]

I think Ms. Depew has me on ignore. She/he never answers my questions.

It is OK. He/She doesn't have many nice things to say anyway.

[Flutter]

To Mike, Sue, Et. all -

The Man's prominence in the home in previous era's was based on his physical strength and ability to provide sustenance to the family.

In today's world - Gender doesn't matter when it comes to putting food on the table, anyone can go out in today's work world and earn a living and support a family.

You're perpetuating the stereotype that each Gender has certain sphere's of influence that are it's sole responsibility, and that attitude is damaging to a child just trying to be themselves when they don't fit into that mold.

All women being spendthrifts is a logical fallacy, but Sue and Another present it as if it's perfectly natural for the woman to go out and overspend, and that it's the job of the husband to reel their partner in. I can tell you from experience, my Mom was the fiscal conservator, my Dad the one liable to overspending.

The physical strength of the man is no longer necessary to battle their way to prominence within the tribe, it is now a matter of intelligence and cunning, and both genders share these traits equally.

The Bravura associated with Manhood (Fallacy though it is) is actually what leads us into most of the trouble we experience in the world. The belief that a man needs to be proud and not give an inch on his position, or show emotions for fear of being seen as less then a man inhibits the ability of true communication to happen.

It's nice to have that feeling of security, but how much security is a big strong husband in the face of a gun or a knife? How much security is a big strong husband in the face of nuclear war?

It's a fallacy.

But, you do have one point correct. Society teaches our men it's ok to not grow up. It's ok to bark like an animal while drinking beer and butting heads with your buddies watching a group of other men hit each other while playing a game of land acquisition. It's ok to leave the cooking and the cleaning and the childcare to your wife, even if they work as many or more hours then you do. It's a sad state of affairs.

However, I disagree that it has to do with male/female, and more to do with most of the male half of the population being essentially oversized children.

It doesn't help that the skills that the male of the species evolved for - hunting, protecting, being quiet while stalking the prey through the woods, single-threaded concentration on a single target.... are all contrary to what makes a succesful person in todays fast paced, communication based, multi-threaded business world.