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Thread: Should Free Buffalo support tax credits for private schools?

  1. #1
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    Should Free Buffalo support tax credits for private schools?

    Should Free Buffalo support tax credits for private schools?

  2. #2
    Member steven's Avatar
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    Free buffalo should support school vouchers and tax credits for people that have their children attend private school. The schools themselves though...? not sure.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    Vouchers are different than tax credits. A voucher is a new form of middle class entitlement.

    Tax credits simply mean that if you pay $3,000 for private school tuition, thereby saving the state money, you get to knock $3,000 off your taxes.

    Private schools pay no income taxes, so I meant the parents who pay their tuition.

  4. #4
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    Absolutely NO! NO! NO! NO!

    Once you accept a tax credit you are beholden to the government that provided said credit.

    I'm an atheist, but I send my kid to a private catholic school because the government has little input in his education. Introducing tax credits to private schools will open the pandora's box of "No Child Left Behind" to any school accepting federal funding. A tax credit is a federal fund.

    Leave the private school folks alone. It's one of the few options us freedom loving people enjoy. I would immediately eliminate my support to Free Buffalo if this proposal became an agenda item.

    Ryan

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    Member steven's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jim Ostrowski
    A voucher is a new form of middle class entitlement.

    Tax credits simply mean that if you pay $3,000 for private school tuition, thereby saving the state money, you get to knock $3,000 off your taxes.

    Private schools pay no income taxes, so I meant the parents who pay their tuition.
    You have me totally confused.

    A voucher is simply the tax money that would have went to a public school going to the school the parent picks for his child as opposed to what the city/county/state picks for the child and is the same for all regardless of income level. How is this a "middle class entitlement" ?

    A tax credit on the other hand would only go to those that could afford to send their children to a private school (and as a side note I have a child attending a private school)..... now that really is a middle class entitlement.

    In my eyes your thought process on this subject is backwards. Would you clarify your position please.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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    "Once you accept a tax credit you are beholden to the government that provided said credit."

    Not sure what you mean.

    Are you saying that the state cannot now regulate private schools?

    Don't the teachers have to be licensed?

    Doesn't the curriculum have to be approved?

    How would tax credits increase government regulation of private schools since they are already regulated in many ways?

    How do tax credits, which are in effect a tax cut for those involved, contradict the principles of Free Buffalo?

    Why don't you want your money back in your pocket rather than in Albany?

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    The reason I posted this is that, while I have opposed vouchers and supported tax credits for many years, I am not sure what Free Buffalo should do. At some point, we'll do a poll of the members.

    That said, once the state passes compulsory education laws, the game is over as far as I'm concerned regarding the issue of free private schools (free as in unregulated).

    Now, in order to appease the officious bureaucrats, you must demonstrate that your private school is really a school, or else you violate the compulsory attendance laws (as Shirley Temple used to do--dating myself).

    Now, I can see people say, if you get tax credits, they must be for a bona fide school, but the state already mandates that your school be bona fide. So, I don't the need for any further regulation to enact tax credits.

    I have to say, I'm winging it here, so correct me if I'm wrong.

    I’ll have more to say about vouchers soon.

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    Here's a good article against vouchers.

    http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=507&id=77

    Vouchers would be like food stamps. It's an entitlement of money from the state. I called them a middle class entitlement because under most plans, everyone would get them. I could have as easily called them an upper class entitlement.

    Tax credits merely allow people to keep their own money. The government never sees the money.

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    Hi Jim; Just brainstorming on this question...

    Wouldnt a dollar for dollar tax credit, in essence allow the private school tuition to, in effect' be paid with by "pre-tax" dollars? Would that be overly beneficient if it were on a 'dollar for dollar' basis?

    In comparison, public school taxes are paid for by 'after-tax' dollars.

    Seeing as school taxes are treated as a deduction rather than a credit to tax due, have you considered the third option of private school tuition being treated as a deduction rather than a credit?

    Cindy

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    "have you considered the third option of private school tuition being treated as a deduction rather than a credit?"

    I'm open to any suggestions.

    I find that people I respect have strong disagreements over these issues, so I thought a debate would be a good idea.

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    Seems to me this debate would benefit

    ... from some input from tax code specialists.. know any? I am just shooting from the hip in this area and the question I posed may not even be logical.. ?

    Cindy

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    charter schools are owned by corporations. tax credits to charter schools is corporate welfare. charter schools dont have tuitions & they are corporate owned. how wants to see tax creidts to corporations that contrib alot to pols runnin for offices.
    bad to the bone

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    You don't need a tax credit to go to a charter school because they're free.

    Tax credits have nothing to do with charter schools.

    Tax credits would help people pay for private schools so they could keep their kids of the government schools.

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    thats what i said. they are free but get more tax credits then private b/c they are corporate owned.
    bad to the bone

  15. #15
    Member steven's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Jim Ostrowski
    Here's a good article against vouchers.

    http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?control=507&id=77

    I hope you don't take offense at this Jim but the article you posted a link to uses poor arguments. The first argument the author uses is:

    First, as the conservative/libertarian critics charge, vouchers, being funded with taxes, would permit the state to regulate private schools in the same way they currently regulate colleges that accept GI Bill funds, Pell Grants, and student loans. Since elementary and secondary education is even more regulated by state authorities than higher education, there is no doubt vouchers could have a crippling effect upon private schools that soon would find themselves under the government thumb.

    This runs counter to what you said in this very thread (and I agree with you)

    Originally posted by Jim Ostrowski

    Don't the teachers have to be licensed?
    Doesn't the curriculum have to be approved?
    How would tax credits increase government regulation of private schools since they are already regulated in many ways?
    He then goes on to talk about personal property rights and his assumption that since the vouchers are not the private property of individuals but rather state mandated they are some how flawed as a vehicle for change. Sorry I am just not buying into that. In other municipalities where school vouchers are used none of the dire predictions he has made in that article have occurred.

    It has been my personal experience that those that dislike the voucher system either:
    A Can afford to send there kids to private school
    B Have no children of school age

    I have not talked to any parent with a child in the BPS that is against school vouchers so they can pick what school there children go to. If there are any on this board please feel free to chime in on how happy you are about not being able to pick the school your child attends.

    The problem with articles like this is glaringly apparent. Whilst the author starts off with "Friedman’s criticisms of public schools are mostly accurate. Public schools are an intrusive and unwieldy monopoly, and like all true government monopolies, public schools are a failure when it comes to giving children an education" He gives weak arguments as to why vouchers will not help to change this and offers no alternative. Here is yet another "barking dog" article, hopefully its not a trap to many that desire change in this area will fall into.

    For those that are not aware of the barking dog theory it goes something like this:

    You move in to a house next to a man that owns a dog, whenever someone comes by your home the dog barks alerting you of there presence, you live in a lower middle class neighborhood so your happy to have the dog there to alert you. This happiness however rarely lasts. Sooner or later the constant barking annoys you and you cant wait to get away from it.

    The barking dog much like the author provides no solution to the problem it just makes noises at it. People rarely like a barking dog for very long.

    Sorry for the long post but IMHO the BPS is one of the primary reasons the city has such a hard time retaining and attracting young couples that would otherwise like to live in a City enviornment. I feel so strongly about this I had to take down my Judy for mayor signs and reassess who I would vote for.

    Many have come up with niffty ideals on how to make the BPS better but they just dont get the fact that a parent with a child entering highschool doesnt have 2-3-4-5-6-7 yrs to wait around for them to get there sh*t together. These are childrens lives we are talking about and there is no second chances.
    People who wonder if the glass is half empty or full miss the point. The glass is refillable.

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