Pot, Kettle, Black

[Curmudgeon]

From the Snooze...

Freezing workers' wages won't solve city's woes

10/3/2005
The City of Buffalo is under a control board that has seen fit to freeze wages for its civil-service workers. For those of us employed by the city and the school district, that wage freeze is affecting individuals who make up a considerable portion of the economic force in this area.

Spiraling upward prices of gas (at the pump and for home heating), food, clothing, taxes and fees are eating away at what little disposable income is left. We are all feeling the crunch of doing more with less, stressing out to the point of becoming physically ill and going home at the end of the day wondering where the incentive is to report to work tomorrow.

Having been forced to a single health care provider has added fuel to the fire. The jury is still out regarding hidden out-of-pocket expenses for those of us now under the new plan. This forced action begs the question: Whatever happened to negotiation, a term that infers give and take? Sound economics tells us that competition is a healthy thing, pandering to a monopoly is not.

Does the control board really think that financially strangling civil service employees is the answer to this city's woes?

Ann P. Rossiter

Grand Island

Wow...

Sound economics tells us that competition is a healthy thing, pandering to a monopoly is not.
FYI - Public employee unions are A MONOPOLY....

Does the control board really think that financially strangling civil service employees is the answer to this city's woes?
Yes. It is the only way to truly reduce costs when burdened with Taylor/Triborough.

[y2000]

Originally posted by Curmudgeon
From the Snooze...



Wow...

Sound economics tells us that competition is a healthy thing, pandering to a monopoly is not.
FYI - Public employee unions are A MONOPOLY....

Does the control board really think that financially strangling civil service employees is the answer to this city's woes?
Yes. It is the only way to truly reduce costs when burdened with Taylor/Triborough.

But if we pay them more we need to raise taxes to do it. If we raise taxes the people will need more money to pay the taxes. Since so many of the area work for the government won't they ask for more money which will make the taxes go up reulting in them asking for more money? At the same time non goverment workers will lose jobs when business' close. Those people will need more services which will mean higher taxes and more raises for the civil servants. Which means higher taxes. Which means more jobs gone and bigger raises for the government workers.

[moonshine]

Maybe Ms. Rossiter should spend a little less time in the editorials and a little more time in the Job Finder section. Last I checked there were several hundred openings in the Buffalo area. Her "services" as a city employee are not needed.

[crlachepinochet]

The pulic unions always want "give and take". We have already given far too much, which is part of the reason why we're in the mess that we're in. How do you deal with groups that cannot recognize this?

Let's say that a union employee's compensation is worth 50 (arbitrary). If the value of the employee's compensation is lowered to say 47 or 48 by consolidating insurers or a pay freeze, the union will want something back to at least get the employee's compensation value back to 50. The question is... what can we give them that doesn't cost us as much money as we're saving? Roomier parking spaces? The air conditioning set a degree lower in summer? Flavored coffee?

[moonshine]

Flavored coffee?

The perpetual look of bitterness on Rumore's face would lead me to believe he has already had his fill of flavored coffee.

[citymouse]

The control board as it exists is a farce. A patronage plum set inplace by the Patacki administration. They basicly took what could have been a good thing and turned it into the same thing they always do, some high paying jobs for their supporters and a chance for some of their connected friends in the business community to grab some lucrative city contracts.
This control board will end up costing the taxpayers more than they bargined for. I think they will gradually be exposed for what they are and in a few years become more and more ineffective untill they are redundant.
Triburough and Taylor are going nowhere in the forseeable future. If the intent of Patacki in forming these control boards was to get around the agreements he will fail. They are the law and will have to be voted or amended by the state Assembly and Senate. That won't happen in our life time.
Next year Patacki will be gone. The year after Giambra will be right behind him. Good riddence to them both.

[citymouse]

Originally posted by crlachepinochet
We have already given far too much, which is part of the reason why we're in the mess that we're in. How do you deal with groups that cannot recognize this?

You are right on the money.
The three city unions that are part of AFSCME have given far too much. But we have bent over backwards and will probably keep bending to help get this city back on track.
I don't know how we can get the control board to recognize this. I don't think you can. They don't seem to want to deal. It is as if they have an anti-labor agenda.
I guess we have to stick to our current contracts, not negotiate until they are willing to do so in good faith.
But thanks for your support.

[y2000]

As long as government refuses to cut costed the cycle of tax increases will continue. I would find it difficult to give up anything as part of a union when the people you negotiate with never give up anything. Perhaps in the next round of talks the union ask that the city/ county lower their costs by a set amount to make it fair. I have no problem letting working people get raises but the cycle of raising taxes to pay for the raises needs to stop. Other bigger cities have smaller councils with less staff. These are big costs to the tax payer that until this past year were never touched. It also appears that those staff jobs lost may come back.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by crlachepinochet
The pulic unions always want "give and take". We have already given far too much, which is part of the reason why we're in the mess that we're in. How do you deal with groups that cannot recognize this?

Let's say that a union employee's compensation is worth 50 (arbitrary). If the value of the employee's compensation is lowered to say 47 or 48 by consolidating insurers or a pay freeze, the union will want something back to at least get the employee's compensation value back to 50. The question is... what can we give them that doesn't cost us as much money as we're saving? Roomier parking spaces? The air conditioning set a degree lower in summer? Flavored coffee?

You see my point i make when talking about compensation. That compensation number per unit. If the unit is 50 the only way it cost the taxpayer less is if that unit cost is lowered. Doesn't do us a damm bit of good if that number never changes.

How would you like to go to wegmans and buy your milk. They say it cost you less but you still pay $1 for the milk. They use the excuse that don't have to walk as far in the store to get the milk so you have a "savings" in walking distance. Your still paying $1 for the milk if that makes sense. You really don't save anything that means anything.

If you give more days off but still the same compensation your paying more because someone else has to fill in to take the place of the day off.

[steven]

Originally posted by citymouse
The three city unions that are part of AFSCME have given far too much. But we have bent over backwards and will probably keep bending to help get this city back on track.

why do public employees talk as if the job they hold is some kind of god given "right"?

If you dont like your job find a new one like the rest of us!

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by citymouse
You are right on the money.
The three city unions that are part of AFSCME have given far too much. But we have bent over backwards and will probably keep bending to help get this city back on track.
I don't know how we can get the control board to recognize this. I don't think you can. They don't seem to want to deal. It is as if they have an anti-labor agenda.
I guess we have to stick to our current contracts, not negotiate until they are willing to do so in good faith.
But thanks for your support.

Educate me. What have you given up so that the final bill to the tax payer is less.

[moonshine]

why do public employees talk as if the job they hold is some kind of god given "right"?

It says so right in the Bible:

Ecclesiastes 12:15. "Thou who walketh in the passages of the Rath building shall enjoy eternal prosperity and paid lunch breaks."

Geez, I thought everyone knew that.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by steven
why do public employees talk as if the job they hold is some kind of god given "right"?

If you dont like your job find a new one like the rest of us!

My feelings exactly. No one is owed a job. Where does this mentality come from?

It would be like me demanding every computer sold in Buffalo MUST go through my company. You'd all laugh at me. Whats the difference?

[y2000]

Originally posted by WNYresident
My feelings exactly. No one is owed a job. Where does this mentality come from?

It would be like me demanding every computer sold in Buffalo MUST go through my company. You'd all laugh at me. Whats the difference?

I guess you don't make people vote for your computers. That's the difference. People are promised things if they vote a certain way and expect to get what they want.

[ESP]

Spiraling upward prices of gas (at the pump and for home heating), food, clothing, taxes and fees are eating away at what little disposable income is left. We are all feeling the crunch of doing more with less, stressing out to the point of becoming physically ill and going home at the end of the day wondering where the incentive is to report to work tomorrow.

Odd... Sounds like my job and I'm NOT a city employee...

I'm just happy I have a job to go to.

We're all under the same health care plan with the steep co-pays... I'm just happy I have some coverage, period.

My gas is no less expensive than hers.

I shop at save a-lot and walmart and deal with living in the city and paying taxes here, since they're much lower than suburbia.

No pity... I have no pity for this whatsover.