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Thread: One Nation Under God

  1. #1
    Member Nicolas II's Avatar
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    One Nation Under God

    Federal Judge rules the Pledge of Allegiance in school to be unconstitutional.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fc/US/Church___State_Issues


    God help us.................. (or can't I post that???)

  2. #2
    Caledon
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    Its a US District that has a record for being very secular, it will be appealled

    Its a US District that has a record for being very secular, it will be appealled and no doubt go the the Supreme Court where even the swing voter Sanda Day O'Connor would have supported School Prayer

    I would bet that Roberts would support school Prayer and so would whoever Bush nominates to replace Rhenquist.

    There are much much bigger issues before the American people that will be decided by the Supreme Court than School Prayer

    -like the legality of the sections of the Patriot Act
    -your rights to privacy regarding your financial information, your medical information, etc
    -limits to Presidential Power
    -the trend to limit the power of the judiciary from hearing certain cases

    I just think that we have bigger issues than school prayer.

  3. #3
    Caledon
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    Is that a picture of Lenin ......Nicholas II

    Is that a picture of Lenin ......Nicholas II

    Why would a communist be concerned about school prayer?

    Whats up with that?

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    Re: Is that a picture of Lenin ......Nicholas II

    Originally posted by Caledon
    Is that a picture of Lenin ......Nicholas II

    Why would a communist be concerned about school prayer?

    Whats up with that?
    ummmm....

    google:

    "Nicholas II" +russia

  5. #5
    Member Nicolas II's Avatar
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    Re: Re: Is that a picture of Lenin ......Nicholas II

    Originally posted by ERIEMAN
    ummmm....

    google:

    "Nicholas II" +russia
    Nice to see satire is not lost on everyone............

  6. #6
    y2000
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    Re: Its a US District that has a record for being very secular, it will be appealled

    Originally posted by Caledon
    Its a US District that has a record for being very secular, it will be appealled and no doubt go the the Supreme Court where even the swing voter Sanda Day O'Connor would have supported School Prayer

    I would bet that Roberts would support school Prayer and so would whoever Bush nominates to replace Rhenquist.

    There are much much bigger issues before the American people that will be decided by the Supreme Court than School Prayer

    -like the legality of the sections of the Patriot Act
    -your rights to privacy regarding your financial information, your medical information, etc
    -limits to Presidential Power
    -the trend to limit the power of the judiciary from hearing certain cases

    I just think that we have bigger issues than school prayer.
    I believe Roberst was nominated to replace Rhenquist and O'Conner will stay on until someone else can be nominated to replace her.

  7. #7
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    The ruling states that the Pledge is unconstitutional because it " violates schoolchildren's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God'".

    I can buy that principle. No one should be FORCED to pledge allegiance to anything.

    So, my question is this: Forgetting the whole God issue for a moment, why should any kid be forced to pledge allegiance to the Flag?

    The best part about the US is that we are all free to believe, or NOT believe as we wish.

  8. #8
    Member LaNdReW's Avatar
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    Re: Its a US District that has a record for being very secular, it will be appealled

    Originally posted by Caledon
    Its a US District that has a record for being very secular, it will be appealled and no doubt go the the Supreme Court where even the swing voter Sanda Day O'Connor would have supported School Prayer

    I would bet that Roberts would support school Prayer and so would whoever Bush nominates to replace Rhenquist.

    There are much much bigger issues before the American people that will be decided by the Supreme Court than School Prayer

    -like the legality of the sections of the Patriot Act
    -your rights to privacy regarding your financial information, your medical information, etc
    -limits to Presidential Power
    -the trend to limit the power of the judiciary from hearing certain cases

    I just think that we have bigger issues than school prayer.
    Ahh, but here is the rub, all these things are linked, including prayer in school. These things are being impressed upon the people.
    "under god" was added later to the pledge....
    check out the history of the pledge here:
    http://history.vineyard.net/pledge.htm
    some "Q" and "A" here:
    http://pledgeqanda.com/
    "When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis (1935)

  9. #9
    Member Nicolas II's Avatar
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    Originally posted by therising
    The ruling states that the Pledge is unconstitutional because it " violates schoolchildren's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God'".

    I can buy that principle. No one should be FORCED to pledge allegiance to anything.

    So, my question is this: Forgetting the whole God issue for a moment, why should any kid be forced to pledge allegiance to the Flag?

    The best part about the US is that we are all free to believe, or NOT believe as we wish.
    I seem to remember back in the day when protests were cool (late 60's-early 70's), kids in school started to refuse to stand for the Pledge. After the initial shock wore off, the schools simply allowed the kids not to participate, and it all seemed to work out. I don't recall any court cases on the thing back then.

  10. #10
    Caledon
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    So, my question is this: Forgetting the whole God issue for a moment, why should any kid be forced to pledge allegiance to the Flag?
    Oh my god! In this country you are allowed to disagree with its policies or agree with its policies but you are obligated to pledge your allegiance to this country! Thats called citizenship and patriotism!

    Sedition is a crime
    Spying is a crime

    Its horrible to think you can enjoy the benefits of this great country and at the same time think that you have no allegiance to it.

    I seem to remember back in the day when protests were cool (late 60's-early 70's), kids in school started to refuse to stand for the Pledge.
    Absolutely correct, if your an atheist or an agnostic...your less than one percent of the population and you should have the right to remain silent at the part mentioning under god.

    Absolutely correct, if your making a political protest then you should have the right to remain silent. I understand that some people may disagree strongly with their government but you can disagree and still be a loyal patriotic citizen.

    I respect freedom of speach or in this case...freedom of silence...because I think one can remain silent and still be patriotic to their god and country (I basically see their silence as temporary) but when someone like therising says that they have no allegiance to this country....I say....fine pick a country and revoke their citizenship. Ive had people who lost years of their life, suffered and died for this country...and they had conflicts too but they were still citizens and they still pledged their allegiance to this country.

  11. #11
    Member WestSideJohn's Avatar
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    but when someone like therising says that they have no allegiance to this country...
    therising said no such thing.

    Treachery made a monster out of me

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by Caledon
    Oh my god! In this country you are allowed to disagree with its policies or agree with its policies but you are obligated to pledge your allegiance to this country! Thats called citizenship and patriotism!

    Frankly, I think the whole issue is a GOP ploy to get the Dems stuck on another non-issue issue. The Dems seem to fall for it every time.


    I can't remember a single time in my life when people didn't stand and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. I'm sure there are a few out there with individual issues that don't agree with the pledge, whether or not it includes the under God phrase.

    But they don't make up the majority, by any means.

    I wish the Dems would wise up and start focusing on things that matter to so many citizens: jobs, health care, a chance to make a better life for their children, for instance.

  13. #13
    Member Nicolas II's Avatar
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    Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001
    a chance to make a better life for their children, for instance.
    I've wondered often at that phrase....What, exactly does it mean, a better life? How much better could it get? Aren't our kids enjoying a better life than most kids around the world? I wonder ????

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by Nicolas II
    I've wondered often at that phrase....What, exactly does it mean, a better life? How much better could it get? Aren't our kids enjoying a better life than most kids around the world? I wonder ????
    You bet -- a much better life than most of the kids, and adults, in the rest of the world.

    But I was thinking in terms of the futures of our kids in this country, and things like being able to afford college, being able to find jobs with health benefits or even -- gasp! -- retirement plans. Or jobs where you actually get raises.

    It is interesting, though, that you should bring that point up. Living in a relatively affluent town here, I can see how much stuff many kids have and how much they regard stuff as their right to have......I guess we parents have spoiled them.

    But they'll need to venture out into the real world soon (at least I hope they do!!!) and they'll discover some unpleasant realities.

    Did that make sense? Did I just totally contradict myself????


  15. #15
    Member Nicolas II's Avatar
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    No--you are right on point. Kids today have a ton of things we didn't. Soccer, hockey, video games, IPods, Internet...... (Yikes, I sound like my parents....)

    I wonder how this will all play out. Maybe it already has as there seems to be a drastic increase in ADD. Does any kid actually sit and read a book, or sit for hours concentrating on Monoploy with their friends?

    As for college costs--well that is a nightmare in and of itself. What a disaster.

    Retirement? Good luck...

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