Lancaster-Depew Baseball League gets green light

[yaksplat]

This project should have been killed before it even got to the drawing board.

[Lee Chowaniec]

This project should have been killed before it even got to the drawing board.

While we differ in opinion on this project, I also respect your opinion and have to ask your thoughts on the skate park that is to be located at Keysa Park in the Village of Lancaster.

The project sponsors were at the Town of Lancaster Town Board work session Monday and presented their project declaring they had fundraised $188,000 and were in the process of contracting California Skate Parks to construct the facility. They presented the skate park design and seemed quite confident that the town board would give them their approval. Yet they were not given the green light and appeared very disappointed.

Although the town board members expressed risk concerns on the baseball facility, they never appeared to waiver in their belief that this project was a go from the beginning. What caused the town board's delay in moving forward? What do you think of this project? And considering the town is seriously working with the succor league to provide a field for their avenue, why shouldn't all of these projects be considered in having value in providing a venue where kids are in a social atmosphere that keeps them off the streets and away from those that can have an opportunity to lead them astray?
In their formative years these kids have a lot of energy that need a positive outlet. What can be more positive than having sports as that outlet, adult supervision and where team values are featured?

[WNYresident]

How much does the Lancaster tax payer have to borrow for the skate park besides spending the $188,000 to building the skate park?

[4248]

Why - why can't people see the end result ?

Taxes keep rising - education costs grow - where and when does it level off ?

Families work more hours but earn less "Spendable" income.

The adults aren't around to interact as much as they'd like - because they put many hours at work.

We all know NY State is stumbling - yet it seems the mantra is always spend more tax dollars = higher taxes.

It would be great to have everything to occupy everyone - yes we have Baseball Players, Soccer players skaters - and on and on. - Where do they play now ? How have so many been involved if there is truly no place for them to participate ?

It would be great to have everything our families want - right outside our door. Then like our pets - we could open the door - let them do what they need to do and come back in the house.

Soon the influx of building will slow to a crawl - home owners taxes will continue to rise.

Whats the fastest way to get large blocks of votes - - - pander to Special Interest Groups.

When some youth cant afford to participate in costly sports or choose not to - they gather at a game store and the vocal minority want to restrict them ?

Developers make millions off building in Lancaster - why don't they help build these facilities ?

Over the years they have pledged "Recreation Areas" - walkable inter connected subdivisions - "Park like Areas" - all in return for favored building permits.

The Town Controllers keep supporting developers needs - now they go to these "Special Interest Groups" - get appointed to there Boards - BINGO !

Last point - for over 20 years many residents asked for "Planning" - a little fore-site. Infra structure upgrades to handle the crush of development.

[WNYresident]

What on going maintenance cost will there be associated with the skate park? Will heat/air-conditioning and utilities be needed? Plowing in the winter? Who can be sued if a child wants to video tape themselves skating and accidentally knocks all their teeth out? Will there be some type of insurance to cover that or would the town absorb the cost? Compared the the indoor baseball facility

[gorja]

How much does the Lancaster tax payer have to borrow for the skate park besides spending the $188,000 to building the skate park?

Isn't the skatepark like the Pony Tails situation in that the taxpayers are NOT bonding the funds to create it?

[4248]

Anything that starts out "Tax subsidized" - and especially on Town Property - will cost tax dollars to support.

Whether its increased Police Patrol, Attendants, grounds maintenance, utilities, lawsuits and so on - it will always end up creating the need for more home owners tax dollars.

The part of some of these issues that fails to hit people - is usually a "cause of the day" - "Special interest" needs - many are spurred on by Politicians seeking to build "Good Will Votes"

When was the last time they audited the fuel costs and consumption in Town owned vehicles ?

When was the last time any actual program was instituted that saved money and didn't lead to increase patronage?

They do the "Proposed budget" - "Reduced Budget" Dog and Pony Show year after year - they say we "Saved hundreds of thousands of dollars" - then why does the amount of taxes we pay keep going up?

Everyone yells about taxes - until the item being debated touches a soft spot in our lives.

[Lee Chowaniec]

WNYresident wrote:

How much does the Lancaster tax payer have to borrow for the skate park besides spending the $188,000 to building the skate park?

Considering the Village/Town of Lancaster is donating the land for the project and since the project sponsors are raising the money to construct it, what does the Village/Town have to bond for. They are looking to get grants to help with costs, but outside of that I am unaware of any town costs associated with the project.

What on going maintenance cost will there be associated with the skate park?

It’s a skate park located in a Village/Town Park where maintenance is already provided. As to equipment/materials upkeep I have not heard of any agreement terms.

Will heat/air-conditioning and utilities be needed? Plowing in the winter?

Isn’t it an outdoor skate park? Do kids skate board in the winter when it snows?

Who can be sued if a child wants to video tape themselves skating and accidentally knocks all their teeth out? Will there be some type of insurance to cover that or would the town absorb the cost? Compared the the indoor baseball facility?

The town has maintained numerous times that the ultimate party liable for injury is the town – regardless where the injury occurs or what insurance is provided by the project sponsor.

[WNYresident]

Lee do you see a difference between an indoor base ball facility versus the skate park when it comes to tax payers?

Bravo to the skate park people if they do everything without any tax payer funds or bonds.

[4248]

Just a drop in the bucket - lets do it !

When do we brake ground on the soccer fields/facilities ?

I have a group of friends that yodel - but they need a indoor/out door acoustic practice area.

[Lee Chowaniec]

4248 wrote:

Anything that starts out "Tax subsidized" - and especially on Town Property - will cost tax dollars to support.

One looks at a $30.65 million town budget and considers what percentage of that budget goes for recreational/health/youth/social programs in place they pale in comparison to the costs associated with staff wages/benefits/perks/pensions – in a town where no town employee pays for health insurance and taxpayers are doling out ridiculous sums to pay for pension costs and where the police contribute zero to their retirement fund.

Why - why can't people see the end result?

If they don’t see the end result it is because they are uninformed or plain Democratic Party tunnel versioned and have voted back into office individuals who have set the standards and continue the status quo routine without concern or consequence.

Taxes keep rising - education costs grow - where and when does it level off?

As long as we keep voting the same people back in office and keep voting school budget approval how can you expect it to level off.

Families work more hours but earn less "Spendable" income.

The unions don’t care and they are the elephant in the room.

The adults aren't around to interact as much as they'd like - because they put many hours at work.

Isn’t that why the town needs the youth and recreation programs it has set in place or encourages enhancing?

It would be great to have everything to occupy everyone - yes we have Baseball Players, Soccer players skaters - and on and on. - Where do they play now ? How have so many been involved if there is truly no place for them to participate ?

The town is short of playing fields for all sports and is actively pursuing changing that – all members of the Town Board. Lancaster is blessed to have as many volunteers it has in all sporting organizations. In my opinion, sports is the number one way of keeping kids off the streets and provides a positive activity that promotes team work and social interaction.

Soon the influx of building will slow to a crawl - home owners taxes will continue to rise.

That’s inevitable and is what happened to the Villages. When that time comes, the town will have to revisit their priorities.

Whats the fastest way to get large blocks of votes - - - pander to Special Interest Groups.

That’s politics at every level.

When some youth cant afford to participate in costly sports or choose not to - they gather at a game store and the vocal minority want to restrict them ?

That was not true of everyone. But then you should be supporting the skate park project as it will allow the skateboarders to gather at a place where they will not bother anyone and can skate for free. But then, how are the skateboarders going to get to Keysa Park? A student was at the recent town board meeting and spoke of the dangers of skateboarding on Aurora Street and questioned why the town did not widen the street to make it safer. He was told it is a county road and to speak to the county Legislator.

Developers make millions off building in Lancaster - why don't they help build these facilities? Over the years they have pledged "Recreation Areas" - walkable inter connected subdivisions - "Park like Areas" - all in return for favored building permits.

The developers pay recreation filing fees that go to the Parks & Recreation department to offset costs of building old ‘pocket parks’ which became a liability in today’s sue happy public.

The Town Controllers keep supporting developers needs - now they go to these "Special Interest Groups" - get appointed to there Boards - BINGO !

Oh so true! But then again the Lancaster community voted back onto the town board office the same old same old politico every election year which brought us to the point we were at before the last election; where Supervisor Fudoli was voted into office and where we have seen positive change - especially in transparency and openness.

Last point - for over 20 years many residents asked for "Planning" - a little fore-site. Infra structure upgrades to handle the crush of development.

If it were not for highway superintendent Dan Amatura we would still be in the dark ages. He pulled the GIS system out of mothballs (mucho money spent on something never used) and is using it for data collecting in identifying culverts and ditches that need attention and in upgrading highway equipment with a process in place that will save money in the long run.

When was the last time any actual program was instituted that saved money and didn't lead to increase patronage?

Energy agreements, refuse, assessment office consolidation to name a few.

They do the "Proposed budget" - "Reduced Budget" Dog and Pony Show year after year - they say we "Saved hundreds of thousands of dollars" - then why does the amount of taxes we pay keep going up?

Your town taxes decreased by a very small amount last year; first time there has been a tax decrease in 13 years. It would have been more but the four DEMS on the town board amended the budget to keep a full time position in the Clerk’s office instead of using part time help. Supervisor Fudoli wanted to not fill a police position that became open when a retirement occurred. The other board members voted opposition.

Everyone yells about taxes - until the item being debated touchewhs a soft spot in our lives.

Soft spots or simply the right thing to do for the right reason? As businessmen, you and WNYresident are well aware of doing a cost-benefit analysis to determine if a project is worthwhile undertaking. The benefits in providing many services in Lancaster outweigh the costs. The costs to provide the baseball facility are minimal considering the benefit to the community. The entire town board approved the project with the same thought and while a few of us residents had concerns and questions, they were answered and no one publicly spoke or wrote in opposition of the project at anytime during the entire month’s long process.

Since the town subsidizes many of these programs, including the Pony Tails, what do you want to see cut out of the budget? While there are many abuses in associated staffing costs – benefits/perks/pension, longevity pay, Equalization pay while police officers drive each other to and from work, etc. – you guys seem to have a hard on for programs that impact the well being and best interests of the community.

Yes, those dollars add up, but so do the millions wasted on the police/courts building project, the renovation/reconstruction of town hall, the fire contract payout accesses, etc.

[hawkeye]

Lee thanks for the information to look at the point of 4248 and his continue bitching about anything and everything in the Town because of those Dems. that he bailed out on went he was in office ( o sorry he was in for four years ). The issues will continue and his point of view will be negative and blasting the Dems. when he had a chance he could have been a voice, ON THE BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[takethepowerback]

If I were a Lancaster resident, I'd be considering a Article 78 filing against the town. According to NYS OPRHP's Alienation Handbook, this use of the park is requires an "alienation" which means the state must pass a bill approving the change in use. It's an alientation requiring state approval for a host of reasons...from the Handbook

1. "It is also worth noting that grant contracts with municipalities involving the development of recreational facilities with State or Federal funds require the municipality to obtain alienation legislation."

2. Size of the change in use is irrelevant.

3. This is determined by the courts.... "The lease of municipal park or recreational facilities, especially one to a private profit-making concern, even though the resource may continue to be used for public park and recreational purposes."

4. The Court of appeals has ruled that buildings are appropriate in a park only if they are consistent with park purposes AND if they “facilitate free public means of pleasure, recreation, and amusement and thus provide for the welfare of the community.”

It's not that an alienation might not be granted, its the arrogance displayed by Lancaster officials in ignoring the law that's dismaying. Complete and continual disregard for state law, environmental assessments, and good old fashion cost benefit is why taxes continues to climb and as the town tries to build its way out, it really is only making the problems worse.

[4248]

Lee thanks for the information to look at the point of 4248 and his continue bitching about anything and everything in the Town because of those Dems. that he bailed out on went he was in office ( o sorry he was in for four years ). The issues will continue and his point of view will be negative and blasting the Dems. when he had a chance he could have been a voice, ON THE BOARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Excuse me - I didn't bail out and you definitely didn't help in anyway. Some people start - as you did - throwing crad when they run out of "Factual rebuttal" - some people would rather take a small inconsequential "Appointment" then actually stand up against the status quo. Enjoy yourself. I choose not to sell out.

But lets try to stay on point -

This Baseball Facility is going on "Taxpayer/Town Owned Land" -

This facility is being subsidized with tax dollars -

This facility is being built for one specific "Special Interest Group" - those are facts.

There has been many "positive" comments I have posted - yes far out weighed by my "Contempt" for the historical actions of a handful of LAN Dem Committee Controllers and those who feel "Entitled" to patronage jobs and nepotism appointments. I will continue until it changes.

I will express my views - that at times are drawn from opinions and conversations with/from other taxpayers.

[WNYresident]

4248
Soon the influx of building will slow to a crawl - home owners taxes will continue to rise.

Lee
That’s inevitable and is what happened to the Villages. When that time comes, the town will have to revisit their priorities.

Or you can be smart and be proactive instead of reactive.

It isn't inevitable if you just don't allow it to happen.