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Thread: Torture Now Cool again

  1. #1
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Torture Now Cool again

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/11/op...pagewanted=all

    The Obama administration failed — miserably — the first test of its commitment to ditching the extravagant legal claims used by the Bush administration to try to impose blanket secrecy on anti-terrorism policies and avoid accountability for serial abuses of the law.

    On Monday, a Justice Department lawyer dispatched by the new attorney general, Eric Holder, appeared before a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco. The case before them involves serious allegations of torture by five victims of President Bush’s extraordinary rendition program. The five were seized and transported to American facilities abroad or to countries known for torturing prisoners.

    Incredibly, the federal lawyer advanced the same expansive state-secrets argument that was pressed by Mr. Bush’s lawyers to get a trial court to dismiss the case without any evidence being presented. It was as if last month’s inauguration had never occurred.

    Voters have good reason to feel betrayed if they took Mr. Obama seriously on the campaign trail when he criticized the Bush administration’s tactic of stretching the state-secrets privilege to get lawsuits tossed out of court. Even judges on the panel seemed surprised by the administration’s decision to go forward instead of requesting a delay to reconsider the government’s position and, perhaps, file new briefs.

    The presiding judge coyly asked in effect whether anything has taken place in the last six months that might have caused the Department to change its position. Answer: No your honor. Q: So the position of the new administration is unchanged" A: Yes. Q: Has the new AG reviewed this case? A: Yes -- I can represent to you that this is the position of the Department of Justice in the current administration. The judge: Very well. Proceed.

    And he did -- taking precisely the same position as that evil Bush administration.
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

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    The silence of the Liberals is deafening.

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    Member Slim.fsp's Avatar
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    All hail the new king same as the old one.

    Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Regan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, and on and on they are all the same piece of crap just in a different suit. Everyone of them used the guns of government to hurt and destroy individuals and families.

    Remember the joke which is funny because it is true:

    How do you know if a politician is lying?

    His/her lips are moving.

    "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
    If you walk around in a forest with your eyes closed you will eventually walk in to a tree.

    2 + 2 = 5

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    Liberals, moderates, conservatives, and complainers, all the same. Lets see some action!

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    Member run4it's Avatar
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    If it's true it's crap. I'm about to verify and write a letter.

    *edit* Surprise, surprise...it's not quite what you indicated it is.

    It seems this was NOT a question about whether rendition and torture are acceptable. It was a question (and answer) as to whether THIS PARTICULAR CASE would compromise national security by being heard. It is not about a broad policy or reversal thereof. It is about the government arguing that a public hearing in this case with this specific evidence would breach national security.

    I'm still not wild about the argument or precedent, but it's a far different question and concern than what Iloathed would lead us to believe.

    I should have known better than to take you at face value...
    Last edited by run4it; February 12th, 2009 at 09:04 AM.
    But your being a dick
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    Member FMD's Avatar
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    isnt it funny how when ever a case comes up that is sensitive to the govt's actions, the govt responds with the blanket term 'national security'

  7. #7
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by run4it View Post
    If it's true it's crap. I'm about to verify and write a letter.

    *edit* Surprise, surprise...it's not quite what you indicated it is.

    It seems this was NOT a question about whether rendition and torture are acceptable. It was a question (and answer) as to whether THIS PARTICULAR CASE would compromise national security by being heard.
    Nice try.
    The case is all about rendition and torture.
    The Obama Administration is using the same argument as Bush regarding releasing evidence that might prove torture.
    You must remember screaming about it for the last eight years.

    From the NYTimes Op Ed:
    The fact that some of the evidence might be legitimately excluded on national security grounds need not preclude the case from being tried, and allowing the judge to make that determination. More fundamentally, the Obama administration should not be invoking state secrets to cover up charges of rendition and torture.
    Hillary will NEVER be President
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    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

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    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    I love it when a Hodgie gets water boarded. Make em eat Ribs.

    UP Dems.

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    Member Save Us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgoodsp466 View Post
    I love it when a Hodgie gets water boarded. Make em eat Ribs.

    UP Dems.

    I think history will prove us right about the wonderboy Obama. Now he is gonna do it the NY way...tax and spend baby.,....

    now it's time for a little jack and coke on the rocks

  10. #10
    Unregistered Cgoodsp466's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Save Us View Post
    I think history will prove us right about the wonderboy Obama. Now he is gonna do it the NY way...tax and spend baby.,....

    now it's time for a little jack and coke on the rocks
    Save its 1515 I still have two Hours of work left then its Irish whiskey time,with a Porter chaser.

  11. #11
    Member ILOVEDNY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cgoodsp466 View Post
    Save its 1515 I still have two Hours of work left then its Irish whiskey time,with a Porter chaser.
    You've inspired me enough to finally break the seal on that bottle of Tullymor Due I got for Christmas.
    Hillary will NEVER be President
    Obama is a FORMER President
    Joe Biden is in Scranton eating paste.

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