One Trick Pony

[NCnewbie]

Originally posted by LaNdReW
Good Topic, if we can keep it civil.

Also, Anyone notice when a politician of is on one side, say Republican, and he sucks, they call him a Rino??

Rino, Dino, I don't care what he is....A true Republican or a true Democrat, they can be bad.... and when they are bad, don't say he plays for the other team...just say he sucks, and you want him out of the party.

Exactly! I get more and more aggravated when I hear a statement about a Dem in Republican's clothing (and vice versa)or particularly "recently disguised as a Republican" (Giambra).

If you choose to align yourself with a party, you have to recognize the decisions made by that party's leadership. Hey, feel free to disagree with it, but it's your party's decision. In Giambra's case, he may have switched to Repub, but the Repubs welcomed him lock, stock, and barrel and paraded him around as a poster boy for years before the scandals erupted. Now, IMO, call him a BAD republican, but to blame his shortcomings on the assumption that he's not a real republican just sounds silly.

[jbinbny]

Originally posted by therising
To the poster(s) who insists on answering every thread with the "You Libs..." response:

You should know that you're coming across as foolish. Whatever credibility you may have had in the past goes out the window, when your response is identical, regardless of what the issue is.

And, I assume you do it because you think you're irritating those who consider themelves as Liberal. The truth is, it was little irritating the first 20 times. Now, it just makes you look a bit silly.




BTW, you're welcome for the friendly advice

Even Hillary doesn't want to be known as a liberal anymore. At least until the 2008 election is over.

But the truth is evident. Most politicans dont want to be known as "Libs". It's the kiss of death to their campaign. At least in most places around the country.

Sadly, not here in Bendover, NY.

But nonetheless, most voters associate the term liberal as a far left wing lunny that is out of touch with reality!

I guess I wouldn't want to be known as a Lib either!

[citymouse]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001


Absolutely. That is why unions exist. Relying the generousity of an employer has not tended to work well for employees in the past. Great for employers, not for employees -- unless the employer is feeling pressure from unions and fends that off with better pay and benefits (a situation I was in a few years back).

I am glad to see some one gets it.
Unions are organized to better the conditions of the members, working conditions, protection from harrasment and unfair treatment, and to better enhance the quality of life of it's members with pay and benefits.
In numbers there is strength. Thats why it's called COLLECTIVE bargining.
Business partnerships and industry lobbiest exist for the same reason, only on the other side of the coin.
If your going to have one you are going to have the other.
It is called balance.
The only thing is in Buffalo, which has the highest percentage of organized labor in the country, the local News Paper is one the side of the Business Partnership so all the unions get is bad press and are made out to be the bad guys.
Kind of upsets the balance.

[citymouse]

Originally posted by jbinbny
.


But nonetheless, most voters associate the term liberal as a far left wing lunny that is out of touch with reality!

It's too bad. We have to work on changing that.
I can understand why people would feel that way.
The trouble us liberals have caused down through the years.
Things like that pesky Bill Of Rights that interfere with all those things Bush would like to do.
Then there was social security. Oh, and ending the draft, exposing watergate, and don't forget about ending the Viet Nam war.
Yeah, I can see why Liberals should be embaressed.

[LaNdReW]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jbinbny
.


But nonetheless, most voters associate the term liberal as a far left wing lunny that is out of touch with reality!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that goes the same for conservative....right wing looney out of touch with reality.

Its all based on personal beliefs.

Right wing religous zealots SCARE ME... Did anyone else see those wacks at the entrance to the fair???

Wearing suits, holding goofy signs..."The end is near"..
Getting booths and handing out tracks...

SCARY.

[biker]

Originally posted by citymouse

Kind of upsets the balance.

There is no balance in the public sector in Buffalo.

There are union members and there are union supporters, temporarily acting as lib/lab elected politicians.

Who is functioning as "management" in this crazy situation? The politicians pandering for the union vote?

The only thing approaching someone representing the interests of the "stockholders" (meaning taxpayers not working for the public sector) is the Control Board. They are not dumb and they don't have to win an election. They also are paying attention month in and month out.

An informed, independent Control Board. Hoo boy! Definetely bad news for the unions.

Only in a warped area like this, Citymouse, could you complain about biased news reporting. The reporters are union members themselves. If you think they are "persecuting" the unions, you have definetely lost touch with reality.

Even union-biased reporters can't ignore the more blatant antics of the unions.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by biker
There is no balance in the public sector in Buffalo.

There are union members and there are union supporters, temporarily acting as lib/lab elected politicians.

Who is functioning as "management" in this crazy situation? The politicians pandering for the union vote?

The only thing approaching someone representing the interests of the "stockholders" (meaning taxpayers not working for the public sector) is the Control Board. They are not dumb and they don't have to win an election. They also are paying attention month in and month out.

An informed, independent Control Board. Hoo boy! Definetely bad news for the unions.

Only in a warped area like this, Citymouse, could you complain about biased news reporting. The reporters are union members themselves. If you think they are "persecuting" the unions, you have definetely lost touch with reality.

Even union-biased reporters can't ignore the more blatant antics of the unions.

Biker, that last comment of yours is sort of funny. From what I hear, reporters here are constantly accused of being anti-union because of all the stories about public sector salaries and benefits. Your comment is the first time I've heard reporters being accused of being biased for unions!

[biker]

Like I said, "only in a warped are like this"

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001


From what I hear, reporters here are constantly accused of being anti-union because of all the stories about public sector salaries and benefits.

you must have been hearing that from citymouse

in reality, its remarkable how the local media reports the absolute minimum regarding the extreme union bloat and the impact its had on us.

[Boost Buffalo]

and, when the tax revolt shifted to the unions as the culprit of our extreme fiscal woes, the media exposure died right then and there....

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by Boost Buffalo
and, when the tax revolt shifted to the unions as the culprit of our extreme fiscal woes, the media exposure died right then and there....

Can you be more specific? As near as I can tell, the "tax revolt" never shifted further than the county and complaints about cronyism/mismanagement etc.

One thing I did find very interesting about the supposed tax revolt here was that it never reached to the biggest user (abuser?) of tax dollars here -- school districts.

All but a couple of school budgets were passed, easily. Contracts were negotiated that didn't include any give backs (Clarence teachers even got to keep their free cosmetic surgery!).

I've kept a close eye on coverage, at least among newspapers, (I don't bother with local TV news) about the unions here and it seems like there are a lot of stories about high salaries, benefits etc. I guess you can argue whether it's enough.

But blaming the media won't do any good. We're the ones who don't vote in school elections, we elect the weasles that won't stand up to public sector unions.....

[citymouse]

Just because a worker is in the public sector dosen't mean the value of his work is worth less then some one in the private sector.
Here is the skinny on it.
Manufacturing unions in this country earned a decent wage.
Business owners wanted to increase profits they were not going to pay any less for raw materials or energy to run the plants.
The only way to increase profit margin was to do it on the backs of the workers. How? By breaking the unions. How did they do that? Off shoring.
They can't off shore public services provided by goverment employees, so what do you do?
You start a cry off public outrage, whip up the masses. They have a willing partner in the News. The Buffalo News hates the organized workers there and has been trying to get rid of them for years.
It's editorial people are in a Writers Guild, they aren't real concerned about any other type of organized labor. They toe the company line in an effort to suck up to Murray Light and Stanford Lipsy. Case in point, did you read the article about "God On Earth" Bob Wilmers. I almost threw up.
So with the news blessing and all the politicians afraid to say boo, they let these nit wits and their puppet Patacki make up a control board.
Now they can use this control board to try and break the unions they couldn't break by eliminating jobs.
You guys fall right into it and become poster children for Rudnick, Wilmers and the rest of them.
Your blame it all on the unions and the Libs just like they told you to.
Meanwhile, all the control board members/ Partnership members would stand to pick up any goverment service contracts that come along because of they way they manipulated the public.
Nothing makes a private developer or businees owner salivate like a public contract.

[atotaltotalfan2001]

Originally posted by citymouse
Just because a worker is in the public sector dosen't mean the value of his work is worth less then some one in the private sector.
Here is the skinny on it.
Manufacturing unions in this country earned a decent wage.
Business owners wanted to increase profits they were not going to pay any less for raw materials or energy to run the plants.
The only way to increase profit margin was to do it on the backs of the workers. How? By breaking the unions. How did they do that? Off shoring.
They can't off shore public services provided by goverment employees, so what do you do?
You start a cry off public outrage, whip up the masses. They have a willing partner in the News. The Buffalo News hates the organized workers there and has been trying to get rid of them for years.
It's editorial people are in a Writers Guild, they aren't real concerned about any other type of organized labor. They toe the company line in an effort to suck up to Murray Light and Stanford Lipsy. Case in point, did you read the article about "God On Earth" Bob Wilmers. I almost threw up.
So with the news blessing and all the politicians afraid to say boo, they let these nit wits and their puppet Patacki make up a control board.
Now they can use this control board to try and break the unions they couldn't break by eliminating jobs.
You guys fall right into it and become poster children for Rudnick, Wilmers and the rest of them.
Your blame it all on the unions and the Libs just like they told you to.
Meanwhile, all the control board members/ Partnership members would stand to pick up any goverment service contracts that come along because of they way they manipulated the public.
Nothing makes a private developer or businees owner salivate like a public contract.

I agree with you on key points, but I think you're over reaching on others.


The private sector is profit driven and has no interest in employees, IMO.

So yes, the easiest way to make a profit is to cut costs, and the biggest cost for employers is almost always pay and benefits for its employees.

So, goodbye local employees; hello, India! Mexico! Central America! China!

But I really do believe this region is out of balance. There is such a big public sector that the cost is very noticeable -- all the more so because taxpayers shoulder that cost.

If the private sector was stronger -- by that I mean creating well paying jobs -- and the economy was enjoying the benefits that spring from that, the cost of the public sector wouldn't be so problematic.

IMO, you can make the case that unions are now a crucial factor that drives up the cost of doing business in WNY, sending business away.

But I think the larger issue is that WNY didn't recognize the need soon enough to reinvent itself -- to get away from its roots as a manufacturing-based economy.

Downstate has the same union power, probably more, to contend with. Yet that hasn't crippled its economy.

So, blaming unions for WNY's fiscal woes is only partially right, IMO. There's a whole big picture out there.

I believe unions offer the best, the only, protection regular people have in the work place.

But the unions here so powerful they end up being self-defeating for their communities.

By the way, Murray Light no longer works at The News so I doubt anyone is scampering around trying to win his favor.

But I agree with your feeling about the Wilmers piece!

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by atotaltotalfan2001


The private sector is profit driven and has no interest in employees, IMO.

That is absolutely wrong. The private sector knows very well that you get maximum results out of a happy employee. There is nothing better than a motivated, content, goal driven employee with merit based advancement opportunities.

The union prefers seniority to advance pay and position, so the employee has no motivation to do anything beyond the minimum effort as he's advanced regardless. That way you need two or three guys to accomplish a one man job.

Today's unions make for sloppy lazy workers who complain.

[steven]

You guys are funny. You act as if this is some stationary feeling in the American public and things will stay this way all the time. Wasn't it just 10 or 15 yrs ago when the oh so righteous right was having all the scandals with their religious leaders and no one in America wanted to be labeled a bible thumping conservative? Wasn't it just 30-40 yrs ago that the south was the democrats strong hold?

The pendulum will swing back and forth throughout time as it always has. A liberal Kennedy type leader will emerge that will bring the country together on domestic issues and suddenly the word conservative will be a dirty word. That will last a decade or two until we tire of that and the repubs will have reinvented themselves yet again........ and the beat goes on.

What's funny is all of you that take the rhetoric so seriously. We have a republican president burning through money like its water, democrats calling for reductions in welfare benefits, log cabin (gay) republicans openly invited to the gop convention, democrats advocating charter schools...............

The only real issue left clearly dividing the two parties is abortion.