Reply With QuoteNothing like paying someone to work for somebody else?
Article IX
Section 9.1:
The County agrees that during working hours on its premises for reasonable periods of time without loss of pay or benefits, CSEA officers and properly designated CSEA representatives shall be allowed to investigate and process grievances; also have access to employees during working hours to explain CSEA membership, services and programs under mutually developed arrangements with department or agency heads, and shall be limited to no more than fifteen minutes per employee per month.
Section 9.2: The County agrees to grant time off with pay to employees who are designated by the Union President to attend CSEA meetings to a total of one hundred days per year.
Section 9.3: It is hereby deemed to be in the best interest of the County and CSEA that the Union President and the Chairman of the Grievance Committee of the Union, if they are County employees, shall be allowed reasonable periods of time, without loss of pay or benefits, to engage in union buisness.
Section 9.4 The County agrees to grant time off with pay to employees who are designated by the Union President who are serving in a CSEA Statewide Committee to attend such committee meetings, not exceed an aggregate of fifteen (15) working days per contract year.
Section 9.5 Employee representatives shall be designated to the County in writing by the CSEA.
Section 9.6 Section Presidents shall be allowed time off for Union buisness as follows:
Section Time off/Hours Per Week
Social Services 20
Erie County Medical 20
Health 8
Downtown 15
Home & Infirmary 8
Library 7
Probation 8
Erie Community College 8
County Clerk 8
Erie County Corrections 8
Youth and Legal Services 8
Unit Secretary 15
Unit Treasurer 8
Political Action Chair 4
145 Hours per week
It is agreed and understood that Section Presidents when using leave as provided under this provision, shall sign-out before leaving their work station and shall sign-in upon return to their work station from union buisness if one (1) hour or more remains in their work day. The time off denoted above is intended to indicate the maximum hours allowable per week, and it is agreed and understood that only union buisness will be conducted during the sign-out period. It is furthermore agreed and understood that the President of the Erie Unit, Local #815, Civil Services Employees Association, Inc. may change the number of hours set forth above as the needs of each Section(s) changes, to a maximum of twenty (20) hours per week per section and a maximum of one hundred and forty-five (145) hours per week. If a change in the number of hours allotted a Section(s) or the Unit Secretary should occur, the President of the aforementioned unit shall notify the Director of Labor Relations two (2) weeks before change is to be implemented.
Nothing like paying someone to work for somebody else?
If you think release time for union business is unique to just the County, it's not. This is more common place then you could know.
The time used for union business is, a lot of times, utilized at managements request for a Union rep to attend a meeting or to help solve a problem or potential problem before it gets blown out of proportion. The name of the game is to resolve an issue at the lowest possible level. This doesn't take into account the amount of time these people attend meetings on their own time and work on problems on their own time. True, they know this going in, but it is still part of the equation.
Smiley, this states simply union buisness nothing more. If they are working union buisness, do it on their own time, not mine.
This is more common place then you could know.
Really? Where? Anywhere that is not represented by a union?
This doesn't take into account the amount of time these people attend meetings on their own time and work on problems on their own time.
Oh goody for them! They actually have to work on problems that are union related and not be paid by the taxpayers to do so!
These employees work for the County, NOT the union. From the way you state it, seams to me the union sees it the other way around.
LHARDY...you're right about one thing....this only happens where there is a Union.
Where there is a Union, there is a Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA). These reflect issues that are agreed upon between the 2 parties and reduced to writing. Like anything else, department managers, who were not at the table and Union members who were not at the table read the language different ways. I am sure you know that there are a couple of different ways to view any language. The only ones who really know the intent of the language in question is the employer and the Union. So the 2 meet to discuss and, believe it or not, settle issues at the start.
And talking about the County, there are thousands of employees that are covered by this and many managers in various departments where issues come up daily. So there is no doubt that there is a need for union officers to be available to handle problems.
Maybe its better this way then to not have the time set aside and when problems occur, just disrupt the department so the union rep can respond.
Smiley if stated as you just have the union mst be inept or all our employees are. If union Buisnees needs to be discussed it has nothing to do with the performance of County work related items. If it does it is contractual and not union buisnees but County buisness and should be handled at the level of management required. Unless they are inept. Then they should be fired.
settle issues at the start.
That is what contract negociations are for. If the union members have a problem with their contract it is taken care of befdore the start of the contract. If the union leadership wishes to hold its' members in the dark on how to interpret the contract that is the fualt of the union not the County. Agian a point of ineptness and ignorance on the part of union and employee. Read your contract union member! But they don't so we need to provide them with counseling during work hours. I don't think so. Time for a new contract.
Problems occur everyday in every buisness that are handled without stopping to confer with a union rep. The only reason to have such a conference is to discuss weather or not a job is of union discription or not. It shouldn't be about how to do a job that an employee is hired to do.
LHardy....It should only be that easy. That's an Ideal world, not reality on the part of the union or management.
...That's an Ideal world, not reality on the part of the union...
It is the real world outside of any Union or Government position.
..That's an Ideal world, not reality on the part of the union...
It is the real world outside of any Union or Government position.
Outside of any union or Government position is the "at will" employment. That means that it is the bosses way or the highway. Most places do not have a dispute resolution process, some due, but most do not. Even the ones that do have it, the Big boss has the final say.
You are right that issues are settled at negotiations, but what happens for the 3 years inbetween negotiations and an issue comes up? How would that be dealt with?
That means that it is the bosses way or the highway.
True, but it is always the bosses way. I have a contract with my boss and if I don't live up to my contract I'm gone. It is not union backed or supported. It is a simple as doing the job I was hired to do. Most companies value good employees and at the rate of difficulty replacing good employees bosses are very reluctant to just throw people out the door without very good cause.
You discription invisions a time long gone in most companies.
but what happens for the 3 years inbetween negotiations and an issue comes up? How would that be dealt with?
At the next contract negotiations. The contract already has been spelled out. Follow it. The union demands this of County right now. This is why we, the County, are in court everyday.
Of course you are gone if you don't live up to your contract. It's when personality conflicts come into play and the boss gets you in his/her sites for some reason and picks everything apart you do and "claims" that you are not living up to your contract. It doesn't matter if in fact you are really doing everything right. You're gone ! No recourse !
While its true that there are a lot of companies that do value good employees and treat them good. There are good employees out there that work their butts off to do a good job for their employer. The County is no different. There are both ends of the spectrum here too. Instead of different companies, we have different departments. The difference is that in the County, there is a union to step in and work through difficult times. I really disagree that this is a long time past. It's here and now. Employers do terminate employees without hesitation. There are people knocking on their doors for jobs.
Just to say that there is a contract all spelled out. Follow it. Is easier said then done. There are games played everyday, by both sides. Thats why when employees screw up they are disciplined. When the employer screws up, there are grievances. That is the nature of the beast. Then again there are the issues that arise that no one is at fault, but need to be settled.
The union business clause is not any different than most private industry contracts.
When a union official takes a union business time off he is usually meeting with a representative from managment who is doing the same thing on managments dime.
They don't want to do the companies work in the off hours any more than the union guys.
But the union guys do do a lot in the off hours, for example all union meetings and other activities with the general membership takes place after working hours, as they should.
these guys put a lot of time in on our behalf.
"If you want to know what God thinks of money just look at the people he gave it to."
By the way, what happened to biker? I miss the old coot.
Thank you Citymouse. You called it right. No one knows the amount of time that Union officials put it above and beyond the work hours. The amount of time spent away from their families and just time to kick back and relax. Yes I know.....They knew this going in and have accepted it, but they believe in the cause and deal with it.
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