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Thread: Waste Water Treatment Plant Criminal Investigation

  1. #46
    Member TheRightView's Avatar
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    Re: Really?

    Originally posted by Dvoakley
    Can you tell me how much it would have cost if the pelletization project had not been started and the sludge had to sent to landfills? Right now you are listening to the political spin from the politicos who are up for election.
    Like Sgt. Friday used to say "Just the facts please".
    Both sides have facts, who is more right? No matter how it all ends up, we all lose either way.

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    Re: Really?

    Originally posted by Dvoakley
    Can you tell me how much it would have cost if the pelletization project had not been started and the sludge had to sent to landfills? Right now you are listening to the political spin from the politicos who are up for election.
    Like Sgt. Friday used to say "Just the facts please".
    Dvoakley

    Fair question. I looked into this and found some very disturbing information. Let me answer your question by talking about the project goals as well as landfill costs. First, landfill costs. According to the town's records, the cost to landfill sludge decreased significantly from 1992, when the project was first being studied, through 1996 when the project was first started. Here are the figures I've obtained:

    1990 through 1993 -- $74.50 per ton (this represented a substantial increase from the previous cost of $32 per ton)

    1993 through 1995 -- approximately $59.00 per ton

    1995 through 2003 -- approximately $43.00 per ton

    2003 through the present -- approximately $39 per ton

    If you do not believe me, make a FOIL request and ask for the sludge landfilling contracts with modern disposal.

    Based upon these costs, we have spent the following amounts to landfill sludge on an annual basis since 1994:

    1994 -- approximately $1 million
    1995 -- $814,157
    1996 -- $636,744
    1997 -- $498,827
    1998 -- $504,415
    1999 -- $330,216
    2000 -- $371,689 (please note we actually spent more money to landfill sludge the first year Watkins was there in 2000).

    2001 – $57,302 (as I will discuss later, the lesser amounts reflected for landfilling sludge in 2001 and thereafter are actually due to changes made by the plant staff and another consultant).

    2002 -- $88,016
    2003 -- $96,166

    The above amounts were for landfilling sludge only. The plant also landfills grit and pellets (that cannot be distributed or sold). So the actual landfill bill is higher but I am focusing only on the sludge since that is what is in issue. When I do the cost analysis regarding the project, I will include the cost to landfill pellets in recent years but I am not going to list those costs separately here.

    Just looking at these figures, it is important to note that most of the reduction in the cost of landfilling sludge has occurred because of the reduced cost per ton to landfill sludge. As you can see, the current cost is almost half what it was in 1992. The pellet project did not start to operate until late 1996. But we have been led to believe that the reduction in landfill costs from over $1 million per year down to the current level is as a result of the solids handling project, which, as is evident from the above figures, is simply not true. That's point No. 1.

    Now, let's move on to the goals of the project. You may remember that in late 1997, there was a group known as the East Amherst Taxpayers Association that was raising questions about the solids handling project, including the costs associated with that project. In response to these questions, Paul Bowers submitted a memorandum to Grelick, dated January 5, 1998, in which he contended that even with the additional costs associated with the project, it was still the most cost-effective solution when compared to other alternatives. He presented three different alternatives:

    1. Digest and landfill sludge (what he called a minimum action alternative)

    2. Digest, pelletize and market the pellets (the original goal of the solids handling project)

    And what he called the worst-case scenario:

    3. Build two new digesters and digest, pelletize and market the pellets.

    He then took each of these options and costed them out over the 20-year life expectancy of the project (1997-2017). Here's what he came up with:

    ******************

    Option #1 -- $24 million broken down annually as follows:

    Debt Service -- $400,000
    Operation and Maintenance -- $100,000
    Landfill Sludge -- $700,000
    Landfill Pellets -- $0
    Market Pellets (at $30/ton) -- $0

    Total Annual Cost -- $1,200,000
    20 Year Cost -- $24 million

    Option #2 -- $18.8 million broken down annually as follows:

    Debt Service -- $700,000
    Operation and Maintenance -- $300,000
    Landfill Sludge -- $0
    Landfill Pellets -- $0
    Market Pellets (at $30/ton) -- ($120,000)

    Total Annual Cost -- $880,000
    18 Year Cost (1999-2017) -- $15,840,000
    First Two Years (1997-1998) -- $2,973,000
    20 Year Cost -- $18,813,000

    Option #3 -- $22.7 million broken down annually as follows:

    Debt Service -- $875,000
    Operation and Maintenance -- $340,000
    Landfill Sludge -- $0
    Landfill Pellets -- $0
    Market Pellets (at $30/ton) -- ($120,000)

    Total Annual Cost -- $1,095,000
    18 Year Cost (1999-2017) -- $19,710,000
    First Two Years (1997-1998) -- $2,973,000
    20 Year Cost -- $22,683,000

    ******************

    On the basis of this analysis, Bowers concluded that the original project, as designed and installed by Wendel Engineers, was still the most cost-effective among the three alternatives reviewed and would cost us roughly $18.8 million over the 20 year life of the project.

    Now, let's take Bowers' analysis and plug in the actual numbers available for Option #2 from current town records. For purposes of this analysis, I have taken the best three years (2001-2003) and used the average for those years.

    Debt Service -- $700,000
    Operation and Maintenance -- $1,000,000 (this is conservative, they are actually exceeding $1 million per year in operation and maintenance expenses alone)
    Landfill Sludge -- $80,000
    Landfill Pellets -- $6,000
    Market Pellets -- ($12,000)

    Total Annual Cost -- $1,774,000
    18 Year Cost (1999-2017) -- $31,932,000
    First Two Years (1997-1998) -- $2,973,000
    20 Year Cost -- $34,905,000

    Please note that these figures incorporate and account for the alleged "savings" in landfill expenses for sludge.

    And Dvoakley, the best part is you do not have to take my word for it. Make a FOIL request and get a copy of Bowers' January 5, 1998 memorandum as well as the figures for operation and maintenance, landfill expenses and pellets sales over the last several years and you can confirm these figures for yourself. They are contained in a document known as the Dewatering/Solids Cost Report, which is maintained by the treatment facility.

    So the bottom line is that we are currently on a path to pay $35 million for a project that was supposed to cost us $16 million to $18 million. In other words, we are losing our shirts. But it gets worse.

    The above figures do not account for the additional amounts we are paying to Mr. Watkins of Microlink to allegedly "manage" the facility. As has been reported, that has already cost us another million dollars or more.

    The above figures also do not account for payments made to the outside engineering firm (Parsons – Dr. John Goeddertz) that, along with the plant staff, actually made the changes to the system that have allowed them to improve the amount of sludge processed through the system. Again, you do not have to take my word for it, go to the town's web site and look at the minutes for the meeting from July 24, 2000. You will see that a resolution was approved to enter into a contract with Parsons to prepare standard operating procedures for the solids handling project. Not only did Parsons prepare standard operating procedures, which, by the way, should have been prepared by Wendel Engineers, they also made a number of suggestions to improve or optimize the process that were implemented by the plant staff and have allowed it to improve the amount of sludge the system can process. Mr. Watkins from Microlink had nothing to do with any of this. In your FOIL request, ask for a copy of the proposal from Parsons that was approved by the town board on July 24, 2000. Read that proposal carefully and it will give you some of the background on what was done by Parsons in 2000. Please note that the town paid nearly $62,000 for this work.

    This same consultant, Dr. John Goeddertz, left Parsons after his initial work in the latter part of 2000 and now works with another engineering firm, URS Corporation. In January 2003, URS Corporation was hired to conduct a solids handling study for the purpose of addressing the continuing deficiencies in the project and suggesting additional improvements. In your FOIL request, ask for a copy of the final report issued in July 2003 and read this report. It goes into a good amount of detail as to the changes that were made to the system and perhaps even more significantly, recommends that the town spend another $4 million to hopefully get the project to operate as it was originally designed. Amongst other recommendations, the report suggests adding additional digestion capacity as part of the improvements recommended. This report ended up costing us another $22,500.

    When you consider these additional expenditures, which can conservatively be estimated at, at least an additional $5 million, it is clear that we are going to spend over $40 million for a project that, as late as January 1998, Mr. Bowers told us would not cost us more than $19 million.

    And Dvoakley, please go check these figures out for yourself by obtaining copies of the records mentioned. I'm not asking you to take my word for it.

    Based upon these facts, it is my view that Grelick, Woodward, McGuire, Bowers and Johnson anticipate that the comptroller's audit will expose a lot of what I have just reviewed with you. Their response, try to blame the plant staff for the problems that they created.

    And there's probably a lot more to this than what I have been able to discover so far. The public needs to get involved and put a stop to this and hold Grelick and the others responsible. And the best place to start is when we vote in the election in November.
    The sign of intelligent people is their ability to control emotions
    by the application of reason.

    -- Marya Mannes (1904-1990) American Journalist

  3. #48
    Member TheRightView's Avatar
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    awaiting reply

    Dono....the facts are here...but where are you?

    I know blaming someone for showing the facts.... it's probalably the AIP who gave the facts or maybe the Bucki's or maybe the Wards. Maybe it was your evil twin who put the facts up here.

    Or maybe Usually Right, is doing their best to shield you from them.

  4. #49
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    Based upon these facts, it is my view that Grelick, Woodward, McGuire, Bowers and Johnson anticipate that the comptroller's audit will expose a lot of what I have just reviewed with you. Their response, try to blame the plant staff for the problems that they created.

    Dog...I think you are onto something here. I agree that these Town Officials know exactly what the true story is, who is at fault and it will be very interesting to see the outcome and to hear how they explain it, especially when I believe that the audit will show wrong doings, but not on the part of Canna or the plant employees.

    Interesting enough, I watched the Town Board meeting on TV last night. The CSEA Rep was up speaking about the injustice being done to the employees at the Plant and McGuire sure was in a hurry to get him away from the mike.

    Was it that the Rep spoke the truth and McGuire didn't want to hear it or didn't want the audience to finish hearing what he had to say? It sure seems like the truth hurts.

    Are we having fun yet ?

  5. #50
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    But why would they let the budget over runs continue for so long?

  6. #51
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    That's a good question.

  7. #52
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    And the cost overruns are continuing...

    I have located some updated information from what I posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005, so I thought I would pass it along. This relates to the question regarding what it was costing us to handle sludge prior to the solids handling project versus what it is costing us now. The Dewatering/Solids Cost Report for the current year is now available online. Go to the following link:

    http://www.amherst.ny.us/govt/engine...u_id=amearth00

    And then click on the link to Dewatering/Solids Cost Report. It is an adobe acrobat file and it contains information through July 2005.

    According to this report, we have spent a net cost of $816,321 to process sludge through July 2005. When you average out the net cost for the first seven months of the year, you come up with approximately $116,617 per month. Assuming we spend that average amount for the remaining five months of the year, we will end up spending $1,399,407 to process sludge in 2005. Add to that the approximately $700,000 per year for debt service for the solids handling project and the roughly $200,000 per year that we are paying to Microlink (Watkins), and you end up with a total cost for 2005 of $2,299,407 for sludge processing. And, as I mentioned in my previous post from August 14, 2005, this figure does not include any of the other costs associated with other consultants or equipment already purchased to improve the project.

    Now let's compare that with 1995, which was the last full year prior to implementation of the solids handling project in August 1996. According to the Dewatering/Solids Cost Report for 1995, we had a total cost of $1,527,852, which included $814,157 to landfill sludge, $63,337 to landfill grit and $650,358 for dewatering expenses.

    If you subtract the total projected cost for 2005 ($2,299,407) from the total cost for 1995 ($1,527,852), the difference is $771,555 in additional expenses in 2005 as compared to 1995. And please note folks, thus far in 2005, they are experiencing the least amount of cost for landfill expenses for sludge and the best they have done yet in the sale of pellets. Nevertheless, we are still over $700,000 in the hole from what we spent in 1995 for our sludge handling costs.

    If you recall the Buffalo News article from December 2, 2004, it estimated that we had already spent approximately $16 million on this project. $2 million a year times eight years so far (1997 through 2004) and there is your $16 million. Remember from my post dated August 14, 2005, Bowers told us in 1998 that the project would only cost us approximately $18.8 million over its 20 year lifespan. Well, we've already spent that and we've got another 12 years to go until 2017. At $2 million per year, that's another $24 million.

    There has been a lot of talk lately on these discussion boards about the importance of honesty and integrity in our elected officials. I wonder who will be the first council member from among those who have supported this (Grelick, Woodward, McGuire and O'Loughlin) to come forward and admit to us that this project is not saving us money but, as is evident above, is costing us a fortune. If we are going to talk about leadership, it seems to me that the ball is in the hands of the Supervisor.
    The sign of intelligent people is their ability to control emotions
    by the application of reason.

    -- Marya Mannes (1904-1990) American Journalist

  8. #53
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    Re: And the cost overruns are continuing...

    Originally posted by Underdog
    I have located some updated information from what I posted on Sunday, August 14, 2005, so I thought I would pass it along. This relates to the question regarding what it was costing us to handle sludge prior to the solids handling project versus what it is costing us now. The Dewatering/Solids Cost Report for the current year is now available online. Go to the following link:

    http://www.amherst.ny.us/govt/engine...u_id=amearth00

    And then click on the link to Dewatering/Solids Cost Report. It is an adobe acrobat file and it contains information through July 2005.

    According to this report, we have spent a net cost of $816,321 to process sludge through July 2005. When you average out the net cost for the first seven months of the year, you come up with approximately $116,617 per month. Assuming we spend that average amount for the remaining five months of the year, we will end up spending $1,399,407 to process sludge in 2005. Add to that the approximately $700,000 per year for debt service for the solids handling project and the roughly $200,000 per year that we are paying to Microlink (Watkins), and you end up with a total cost for 2005 of $2,299,407 for sludge processing. And, as I mentioned in my previous post from August 14, 2005, this figure does not include any of the other costs associated with other consultants or equipment already purchased to improve the project.

    Now let's compare that with 1995, which was the last full year prior to implementation of the solids handling project in August 1996. According to the Dewatering/Solids Cost Report for 1995, we had a total cost of $1,527,852, which included $814,157 to landfill sludge, $63,337 to landfill grit and $650,358 for dewatering expenses.

    If you subtract the total projected cost for 2005 ($2,299,407) from the total cost for 1995 ($1,527,852), the difference is $771,555 in additional expenses in 2005 as compared to 1995. And please note folks, thus far in 2005, they are experiencing the least amount of cost for landfill expenses for sludge and the best they have done yet in the sale of pellets. Nevertheless, we are still over $700,000 in the hole from what we spent in 1995 for our sludge handling costs.

    If you recall the Buffalo News article from December 2, 2004, it estimated that we had already spent approximately $16 million on this project. $2 million a year times eight years so far (1997 through 2004) and there is your $16 million. Remember from my post dated August 14, 2005, Bowers told us in 1998 that the project would only cost us approximately $18.8 million over its 20 year lifespan. Well, we've already spent that and we've got another 12 years to go until 2017. At $2 million per year, that's another $24 million.

    There has been a lot of talk lately on these discussion boards about the importance of honesty and integrity in our elected officials. I wonder who will be the first council member from among those who have supported this (Grelick, Woodward, McGuire and O'Loughlin) to come forward and admit to us that this project is not saving us money but, as is evident above, is costing us a fortune. If we are going to talk about leadership, it seems to me that the ball is in the hands of the Supervisor.
    WOW !!! Those figures are quite the eye opener, but your question of who will be the first council member to come forward and admit to us that this project is not saving us money ? That would be committing political suicide. I believe that none of them will, as that would be admitting they were wrong and those figures didn't just come out. They have known about it for quite some time. How could they no know? The second major piece is that they would then be saying that Canna did nothing wrong, so how could they justify spending all the money on that case.

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    Re: Re: And the cost overruns are continuing...

    Originally posted by Smiley
    WOW !!! Those figures are quite the eye opener, but your question of who will be the first council member to come forward and admit to us that this project is not saving us money ? That would be committing political suicide. I believe that none of them will, as that would be admitting they were wrong and those figures didn't just come out. They have known about it for quite some time. How could they not know? The second major piece is that they would then be saying that Canna did nothing wrong, so how could they justify spending all the money on that case.
    Smiley, you ask, "How could they not know?" Precisely, and if they didn't know, they should have and they certainly should know what's going on by now. You also correctly observe that admitting the truth now "would be committing political suicide." I agree and that is why they are spending all the money on the Canna case and more recently, attempting to blame the plant staff for the continuing cost overruns, because to do otherwise, would be committing political suicide. WNY Resident, I think this answers your question as to why they would allow the cost overruns to continue for so long.

    Smiley, I also agree with you that none of them (Grelick, Woodward or McGuire) will admit the truth even in the face of the undisputed figures set forth in the Dewatering/Solid Cost Reports. Of course, this begs the question that many other posters have been asking, if what you suggest is true, are these really the type of individuals we want representing us on the Town Board – people that believe that political gain is more important than honestly representing the interests of the public.

    However, I believe O'Loughlin could admit the truth without committing political suicide because although he voted to proceed with the second Canna hearing, he was not part of, as far as I know, any of the prior efforts to mislead us into believing that this project is saving us money. So it seems to me that he has a golden opportunity to put a stop to this continuing waste of money. And since he prides himself on his financial prowess, it's a perfect fit.
    The sign of intelligent people is their ability to control emotions
    by the application of reason.

    -- Marya Mannes (1904-1990) American Journalist

  10. #55
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    Politcal Suicide, you bet.

    But the whole mess does not absolve the others of blame - currently Ward Schratz and Kindel - previously Brewer and Wojtowicz. Anyone of them, especially Ward (Canna having been his appointment), could have looked into the matter early on and have discovered that the engineering-ese Bowers, Johnson and Watkins were feeding them was high tech BS.

    Unfortunately, Ward is no dummy. He likely had seen the problem early-on and was willing to sit back and let the others (especially Grelick and Woodard) eventually hang themselves.

    The gallows tree awaits, but O'Loughlin and Schratz are the most likely to be pardoned. As newer board members they have each been able to legitimately distance themselves.

    It will be verrrry interesting to see how the "survivors" of next Tuesday's primaries align themselves regarding this. It can no longer be swept under the carpet.

  11. #56
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    Wouldn't the town board as a group go over numbers year to year just to see how departments are running?

    Monitor supply cost, overtime issues and basic budgetry things?

    Like basic business 101.

    They gotta have this stuff at least on a spreadsheet by department. Then graph each department from year to year to get a cost increase as time goes on. This would of shown as a spike from the day it started if it was graphed against the previous years before the project was started. You would of saw a spike from the first "investment" into the department to get the project started. Then you should of saw the cost as least be in line with what it was but hopefully be lower seeing the whole point of the "investment" was to save money over the years.

  12. #57
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    And another thing...

    If an employee (town board member) knew money was being burnt threw but allowed it to continue to make others look bad, that would be bad. They should be more worried about the people they represent versus thier "political" back stabbing.

    I would say that could be morally criminal. It might not be "legally" criminal because no action was taken while the money was being wasted. But as morals go they weren't looking out for the best interest of the people they represent.

  13. #58
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    Originally posted by WNYresident
    Wouldn't the town board as a group go over numbers year to year just to see how departments are running?

    Monitor supply cost, overtime issues and basic budgetry things?

    Like basic business 101.

    They gotta have this stuff at least on a spreadsheet by department. Then graph each department from year to year to get a cost increase as time goes on. This would of shown as a spike from the day it started if it was graphed against the previous years before the project was started. You would of saw a spike from the first "investment" into the department to get the project started. Then you should of saw the cost as least be in line with what it was but hopefully be lower seeing the whole point of the "investment" was to save money over the years.
    WNY....You would think that they would go over numbers year to year as they (Town Board members) have the fiduciary responsibility to see how the various departments are run. Especially in a department where there is such an outstanding issue. It appears to me that they have not asked to see them and that they are taking the word of the Town Engineer and Assistant Town Engineer of what ever they are telling them. You have to wonder if they are afraid to ask to see any numbers or ask any other questions at this stage of the game. If they did, it could be an awe sh*t. Do you think they would be willing to gamble that? I don't.

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    I happened to catch part of the TB meeting from Aug. 15 & saw the part where a "Labor Relations" representative of one of the unions was commenting on the illegal activities that were being done by the Town's legal counsel and an assistant department head. When it got to the three minute bell, the TB tried to stop this man from completing his statement. Many times I have seen them allow people to speak much longer, but in this case I think it was making several board members uncomfortable.

  15. #60
    Tony Fracasso - Admin
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    I think all town boards would at least at minumun skim all departmental budgets. That would be the only way you would have the "big picture" of what is really going on. You just wouldn't take someone's word that everything is dandy. The numbers tell the true story, not someones opinion that everything is fine.

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