ok your got light rail.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by Boost Buffalo
And regarding the east side, I still think moadib had the best answer.

Cut the transportation boulevard/corridor through the east side from the airport to downtown with surface light rail on the common roadway, passing right through the Central Terminal. Make the corridor beautifully tree lined and attractive right to downtown.

And sell the vacant residential lots throughout the east side for a dollar to the adjacent property owners providing desirable privately owned suburban sized lots.

I love that idea.

OK you got light rail all built and set up. WHO would use? People land at the air port and what would they do differently than what they are doing now? It not going to be like 200% more people are suddenly going to use the airport becuase there's light rail attached to it.

SO now people without cars can go from the east side to the airport and do what?

[Shovel ready]

I am generally against using light rail as a hope for building solid regional transit.

First off, at-grade light rail shares the road with traffic, so all it does is serve as a much more expensive bus that is constrained to a trackbed. The worst of both worlds. Being constricted, the trains cannot go around traffic and vice versa. This would tie up traffic and create a headache.

If one were to build a transit system, go the fully nine yards and build grade-separated rapid transit. Subways and/or El's. The trains are fast and don't have to deal with traffic. Buffalo's metro-rail line can be considered rapid transit in the underground portion.

Obviously Buffalo is not getting any new rail lines soon because:
1. The guvmn't. The Federal government has a very low priority for urban mass transit projects. America's minds are all still stuck in the cars, highways, and suburbia gutter
2. Uselessness of downtown. Rapid transit system are only effective for ferrying commuters to a centralized employment district. The Buffalo area has embraced auto-utopia, so most of the good jobs are out in the suburbs in far-flung places, not well accessed by mass transit.
3. Ease of getting around by car. This kinda ties in with #2. Buffalo is famous for the old saying "you can get anywhere around here in 15 mins." Buffalo's roads are well known for NOT being congested, thefore the relatively stress-free, quick car commute. Rapid transit for people who own cars, only becomes attractive when
A. The roads on the way to work are so congested, that taking rapid transit would actually be faster.
B. Lack of cheap, convienent parking at the workplace. This actually plays a factor in a good deal of metro rail's rush hour usage.

So ok, expanded mass transit may look bleak in Buffalo, but if the original line was built all the way to the Amherst UB campus, it would have gained more usage and made more people accoustomed to getting around this way.

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by WNYresident
OK you got light rail all built and set up. WHO would use? People land at the air port and what would they do differently than what they are doing now? It not going to be like 200% more people are suddenly going to use the airport becuase there's light rail attached to it.

SO now people without cars can go from the east side to the airport and do what?

Instead of renting a car at the airport and driving downtown to your meeting/hotel and parking, you would simply board the rail and be whisked downtown. Much of the rail corridor is already in place and in certain key areas, it would travel directly on the roadway.

Stops would be few but would include the Galleria Mall, the Central Terminal which would enhance it's industrial development desirability and feasibility tremendously, and the Broadway Market.

Once downtown, you would be linked to the existing light rail to
Bass Pro, inner harbor, outer harbor, and Main Street Buffalo in its entirety. Perhaps continue the Main Street run to North Campus, with a surface rail.

The east side would benefit wonderfully and the airport and downtown would be efficiently, effectively, and pleasantly linked, enhancing both. And north campus would have easy access downtown.

Phase two would extend the rail from downtown Buffalo to Niagara Falls, and the entire system would make incredible sense.

[WNYresident]

How many cars are rented near the airport on a daily basis now that go downtown?

You would prefer to put all those car rental businesses out of work?

What do you think something like that would cost to build? how much would you charge a rider to eventually get the money back? I bet you would have NYS labor unions running the train at top dollar. Another NYS costly labor project that might lose money and then be subsidized by you and I.

Oh that was an unfair statement. I should of asked this first. Is the buffalo subway profitable? Not one tax payer penny is used in it's operation?

[Marc]

I would love to have a great transit system in our metro area, but there is no way in hell the bennefits would justify the price at this point in time.

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by WNYresident
How many cars are rented near the airport on a daily basis now that go downtown?

Can you imagine coming into WNY and staying at one of those new and plain jane airport hotels? They are horrible with nothing going for them. nothing to do, nothing to see.

If the travelers surface railed downtown they would get the hotels, theatre district, nightlife, Bass Pro, waterfront scenery, waterfront expeditions ie touring, fishing etc, inner harbor, outer harbor and new convention center, incredible architecture, massive library, movie screens, excellent original restaurants, etc etc etc, and all extremely easily accessible without a rental car and parking search.

Downtown Buffalo has just a tremendous amount to offer. The light rail airport extension makes all the sense. And it would enhance and bring new life to the east side as a huge bonus.

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by Marc
I would love to have a great transit system in our metro area, but there is no way in hell the bennefits would justify the price at this point in time.

oh really? what price for an extended surface rail? Do you know or are you just making unfounded statements.

The huge cost to our current system was the result of going below grade. That was a foolish mistake. The balance of the system will be surface rail.

National transportation infrastructure funding is plentiful and its time we get our fair share to extend and complete our system.

An airport extension would further enhance both downtown and the airport. Downtown would become more attractive to business and slow down and possibly eliminate urban sprawl.

Amherst doesnt need to continue as a growing suburban sprawling commercial metropolis, it should be a sleepy suburb.

[granpabob]

people mention sharing our roads with light rail. why would we do that when there are so many old railroad right of ways in this county. we dont need to tear up roads to install light rail just reopen the old raillines. at one time every factory had a rail spur and every village had a depot those right of ways are still there.
Many are now bridgeless but that still seems better then ripping up roadways
my only real question is why did the old trolley's and railroads die If we spend billions to rebuild them will people use them now
Remember we stopped using them once and they all went bankrupt,is our traffic bad enough now for enough people to want another choice to make it worth while

[Marc]

Originally posted by granpabob
people mention sharing our roads with light rail. why would we do that when there are so many old railroad right of ways in this county. we dont need to tear up roads to install light rail just reopen the old raillines. at one time every factory had a rail spur and every village had a depot those right of ways are still there.
Many are now bridgeless but that still seems better then ripping up roadways

Very good point there.
Look at this map and look at all the rail right of ways. Click on the satelite button and you can look for abandoned lines that have nothing on them, some missing bridges like you said.

A line could be created right from the airport to downtown, stoping not only at the central terminal, but at the galleria mall too! That still doesn't mean that money should be dedicated to such a line at this time.

[WNYresident]

Originally posted by granpabob
people mention sharing our roads with light rail. why would we do that when there are so many old railroad right of ways in this county. we dont need to tear up roads to install light rail just reopen the old raillines. at one time every factory had a rail spur and every village had a depot those right of ways are still there.
Many are now bridgeless but that still seems better then ripping up roadways
my only real question is why did the old trolley's and railroads die If we spend billions to rebuild them will people use them now
Remember we stopped using them once and they all went bankrupt,is our traffic bad enough now for enough people to want another choice to make it worth while

I was wondering that myself. My grandfather told me all the time about the trolleys and stuff. He said replacing them with buses were stupid seeing they were already there and didn't polute as bad.

[300miles]

The best extension of the current metro would be to complete phase 1 on to UB North.

There are thousands of students, many without cars, living in isolated amherst (I lived in the dorms there and believe me, without a car, you are very isolated in auto-ville. we used to hop the campus bus to UB South, then catch the metro downtown.. the evening bus schedules sucked... it was a pain in the a**. The train needs to run later as well.)

The train could then serve and the link between UB north and south campuses, replacing the buses. and provide a link from UB North to all stops in buffalo including downtown and harbor front.

This would futher boost the downtown nightlife and provide opportunities for students to live in buffalo as well as connect city campuses at the medical campus and possible new sites (school of architecture downtown?)

[Boost Buffalo]

the downtown/airport corridor already exists, mostly.

The rail could run surface from Downtown Main St and run down Broadway, stop at the Broadway Market, cut over to the Central Terminal, and pick up the existing abandoned rail corridor that runs right through the Walden Avenue/ Harlem Rd intersection and continues right past the Galleria Mall, runs through Union Rd, and then Dick Rd, and ends right at the Genesee St side of the airport.

The stops could be limited to downtown Main St, Broadway Market, Central Terminal, Galleria, Harlem Rd, Dick Rd, and the airport.

Perhaps the Central Terminal stop would pickup Amtrak commuters as well. Not sure.

Its a great plan. The east side would score big, and so would downtown and the airport. Its sensible and being surface in its entirety and utilizing existing rail beds, cost effective too.

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by 300miles
The best extension of the current metro would be to complete phase 1 on to UB North.

This would futher boost the downtown nightlife and provide opportunities for students to live in buffalo as well as connect city campuses at the medical campus and possible new sites (school of architecture downtown?)

thats for sure, 300miles.

Run it from the south campus station surface up Millersport Highway and then curve right into and through the North campus.

Rail stops could be limited to the North Campus, Maple Road, Sheridan Drive, Eggert Rd, and the South Campus.

That is a beautiful plan.

[Linda_D]

Originally posted by Boost Buffalo
thats for sure, 300miles.

Run it from the south campus station surface up Millersport Highway and then curve right into and through the North campus.

Rail stops could be limited to the North Campus, Maple Road, Sheridan Drive, Eggert Rd, and the South Campus.

That is a beautiful plan.

Talk about a pipedream!!!

Along with your proposal to bulldoze the East Side in order to create a tree-lined rail corridor from downtown to the airport, advocating this scheme makes you sound like a latter day Robert Moses.

[Boost Buffalo]

Originally posted by WNYresident
I was wondering that myself. My grandfather told me all the time about the trolleys and stuff. He said replacing them with buses were stupid seeing they were already there and didn't polute as bad.

trollies are a whole different game compared to commuter express type light rail.

Trollies run a grid network and stop at every intersection, mostly localized areas.

No real comparison to trollies/light rail commuter systems.