something to think about along with my fellow veterans

[therising]

a big "we're not worthy" goes out to pundit.

Nice rebuttal!

[Chancellor Qu'noH]

The problem with IraQ is the same problem that was Nam. Not trying to win a war now but win hearts and minds.

Hell with that. we went in to remove saddam and let them set up "They're" own government. It done. Now give them 3 months to get they're army ready and out.

When I was over there you would see people coming out of houses carring aks or old bolt actions and be ready for a fight. You couldn't tell if they were the enemy or not. That is one of the biggest problems....They all have guns everywhere I was an adviser over in the gulf last year and was sent home because I said I was going to shoot first and ask questions later. I see a man or a couple of men running from a house with guns in an area that I was just shot at from ..... Guess what BANG! YOUR DEAD so I was sent home.

[Riven37]

John F. Kennedy - started the Vietnam conflict in 1962. Vietnam never attacked
us. Then Lyndon Johnson - turned Vietnam into a quagmire.
From 1965-1975, 58,000 lives were lost, an average of 5,800 per year. Or an
average of 16 PER DAY!



This is wrong info !!! Congress had sent advisors into Vietnam in 1959 to protect our oil interest on off shore accounts. It was the only war that private business had lost cilivian workers to combat fighting to protect their interest.

On the Wall the dates read 1959-1975 the longest War US ever fought. In 1962 Kennedy sent our Green Bert into Vietnam as advisors to beef up our CIA advisors we already had there.

LBJ beef up our troops in 1963 and by 1965 we had reached over tow hundred and fifty thousand troops. It was 59, 859 + lives lost however, this doesn not count the 250,000 who died do to their wounds following their extraction from the war or years later do to those wounds. It does not cover the 120,000 who had taken their own lives from 1975 - 1885 do to Gov't failure to teart our troops properly once they returned home.

It was the only US War where we vets were wanked out of combat and placed on the US streets within hours later we were in a fire fight.

Vietnam was the last war to use chemical warfare since WWI and in doing so, cost the lives of at least 20,000 veterans do to that chemical warfare.

It was the only War that the VFW refused to accept Nam vets in stattered cities throughout the country and throughout its posts during the 1970's until about 1980's...It had forced Vets of Vietnam War to form their own orgainization called the VVA. Congressed approved there Charter in 1985 and well as congress offically declaring the Vietnam Conflict to a Vietnam War and allowed us veterans to file our service connected claims.

If, If Turman had step in when he should had we may not have ever went into Vietnam however, because Turman refused to help and carried over to Ike's refusal its a price we paid, my firends paid and I paid....

Today, Vietnam wants our business and wants trade normalization to help close this book of theres and our past. for many many years I hated Vietnam but as time goes by and I become older my hate is lessen a little more. If we the US do not begin trade normalization with Vietnam the US will never be able to put Vietanm to sleep. I hate yes, I hate when the news compair vietnam to other problems in the world and the US and Congress hasn't even fixed our past first. No wonder the media compairs everything to Vietnam. Its time to stop...all I want is to rest and I can't rest when the media refuses to let me rest...stop using my war to compair other fighting in this world...Nothing will ever compair Vietnam to any other fighting in the world...let me rest.


I hate it when the wrong info or hafe info is used...tell it like it is and don't believe everything you read...ask a vet who was there !!

[speaker]

Yeah, riv, the French occupied Vietnam for 37+ yrs and wanted out. The south Vietnamese were terrified of the north because they knew there would be a civil war and they'd be annihlated ands they begged USA to send over troops to help them with terrible stories of genocide. We did and look what happened. the same for Iraq. The vets were really not treated well but we, the people knew it was a horrible thing and often soldiers dying from "friendly" fire. Disease and brutality damaged many guys.
In Afghanistan several of our troops died of cancer from the gas used by the Americans. Imagine how many Afghans died of the same thing? Children, women, our men, their men. Not shot down--a long and terrible death.
Value of human life. Pshaw.
Vietnam, Korea, Afghanistan and now Iraq are not and were not WW1 or 2. Just bloody suffering for all.

[buffknut]

Nice post buffalojoe. Too bad this forum is overwhelmingly anti-Bush, and pro-liberal Democrat. The members hate anything Bush does, have no viable alternate plans to do anything, and believe everything they have been fed for decades from an obviously biased left-wing media. They wonder why Erie County & NY State are wallowing and can't seem to understand that they are part of the problem because they have voted in the liberal Democrats for decades.

They need to revise history because after all, thousands died on fwench beaches in 1944 attacking germany even though it was Japan that attacked us.

They want to go back to the ladeedah pre-9/11 world of Clinton where we ignored the growing threat and didn't do a damn thing about it. They want the UN to tell us what to do despite the obvious fact they would never pass a UN resolution due to the corruption and bribery. They believe everyone except their own President who they just can't get over, actually defeated their heroes Gore and Kerry. They believe Dan Rather, Michael Moore, CNN, and the elites in Hollywood and mainstream media instead of their own President. They don't see how they play right into the hands of al-jezeera. They don't because they don't want to. They want the US to fail. They won't say it, but they act it. They don't get it.

As I said in other posts, they might as well put an obligatory "I hate George Bush" reply into every thread so they can save themselves from repeating their rhetoric against Bush in every thread. I feel like a lone wolf here although it looks like there are a very few others who agree with some of what I've repeatedly said.

This area acts and votes in lock-step with the Dem party locally and nationally. Oh they may say they support a 2-party system and look for the "best" candidate, but they don't show it here.

They are not part of any solution to anything. With these guys leading the way, tell your wives to start wearing burkas because the path Europe is rapidly going down (soon to be Eurabia), we will be next. Thankfully GWB gets this & is doing something about it.

[buffalopundit]

Originally posted by buffknut
Nice post buffalojoe. Too bad this forum is overwhelmingly anti-Bush, and pro-liberal Democrat. The members hate anything Bush does, have no viable alternate plans to do anything, and believe everything they have been fed for decades from an obviously biased left-wing media. They wonder why Erie County & NY State are wallowing and can't seem to understand that they are part of the problem because they have voted in the liberal Democrats for decades.

We know precisely what's wrong with NYS and Erie County. And we're smart enough to realize that things have to change. And we're open-minded enough to realize that fundamental change in NYS is a non-partisan issue.

They need to revise history because after all, thousands died on fwench beaches in 1944 attacking germany even though it was Japan that attacked us.

God, that's the dumbest thing I've ever seen, and now I've seen it twice in one thread.

You're the one revising history. During the second week of December 1941:

1. The Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor
2. We declared war on Japan
3. Japan declared war on the US
4. Germany & Italy declared war on the US in retailiation for declaring war on their ally, Japan.
5. The US declared war on Germany & Italy.

If you don't realize that the sequence of events took place like that, and you continue to spout off that FDR attacked the Germans for no good reason (concentration camps apparently not being reason enough, in retrospect), then I truly feel sorry for you.

They want to go back to the ladeedah pre-9/11 world of Clinton where we ignored the growing threat and didn't do a damn thing about it. They want the UN to tell us what to do despite the obvious fact they would never pass a UN resolution due to the corruption and bribery. They believe everyone except their own President who they just can't get over, actually defeated their heroes Gore and Kerry. They believe Dan Rather, Michael Moore, CNN, and the elites in Hollywood and mainstream media instead of their own President. They don't see how they play right into the hands of al-jezeera. They don't because they don't want to. They want the US to fail. They won't say it, but they act it. They don't get it.

Nobody wants the US to fail. The republicans and the administration have set the US for failure, and shout "treason" when that fact is criticized. Only a traitor would send troops to fight a war without adequate armor. Only a traitor would send American men & women to a desert to fight a war without enough water to go around. Only a traitor would ignore the Pentagon and send far fewer troops to fight a battle and win a peace, despite the generals' pleas. Only a traitor would call someone who criticizes torture a traitor, rather than the torturer himself.

It's not Dick Durbin who's playing into the hands of America's enemies. It's the cretins and morons who are torturing and humiliating prisoners at Abu Ghraib (which is subject to Geneva Convention), and holding prisoners on American soil at Gitmo indefinitely without charge or trial - who are playing into the hands of our enemies.

As I said in other posts, they might as well put an obligatory "I hate George Bush" reply into every thread so they can save themselves from repeating their rhetoric against Bush in every thread. I feel like a lone wolf here although it looks like there are a very few others who agree with some of what I've repeatedly said.

I don't hate George Bush necessarily. I hate his patent incompetence and his contempt for the truth and our troops.

This area acts and votes in lock-step with the Dem party locally and nationally. Oh they may say they support a 2-party system and look for the "best" candidate, but they don't show it here.

I'm sorry - to which party do Gov. Pataki and CE Giambra belong again?

They are not part of any solution to anything. With these guys leading the way, tell your wives to start wearing burkas because the path Europe is rapidly going down (soon to be Eurabia), we will be next. Thankfully GWB gets this & is doing something about it.

On top of being ignorant, you're a bigot, too. Or maybe that's redundant.

[buffknut]

pundit. you have zero credibility with me. So your comments matter not to me. Go ahead, believe the BS you've been fed all you want. Enjoy your own blog all you want. Call me ignorant, bigoted and any other name you want.

You forget about concentration camps in Iraq but then the treatment people get in that part of the world matters not to you, Amnesty Intl, Durbin, and the like. It's easy to criticise the US because you can get away with it without getting killed or imprisoned. Try that in the rest of the world.

You care more about gitmo terrorists who would kill Americans if they could, than our military. You like it when lies are spread that can be used against America. You agree with Durbin & his ilk. Well I don't and I do think they are the traitors.

Don't lecture me on concentration camps. My Dad was there for the liberation of two so I've heard the stories.

You are just another "I hate Bush" guy so you fit right in with the liberal Dem obstructionists who have no interest in fixing anything.

You are a lost cause in my book. You don't get it.

[buffalopundit]

Originally posted by buffknut
pundit. you have zero credibility with me. So your comments matter not to me. Go ahead, believe the BS you've been fed all you want. Enjoy your own blog all you want. Call me ignorant, bigoted and any other name you want.

The history of WWII is BS?

And what makes you think I give a crap whether I have "credibility with" you?

You forget about concentration camps in Iraq but then the treatment people get in that part of the world matters not to you, Amnesty Intl, Durbin, and the like. It's easy to criticise the US because you can get away with it without getting killed or imprisoned. Try that in the rest of the world.

I didn't forget about concentration camps in Iraq. If that was going to be the rationale to take Iraq to war, then that should have been stated. But the rationale was WMDs. Which aren't there. Which weren't there in 2003, either. Or 2002, for that matter. But don't let facts get in the way of your opinions.

Also: If you click this underlined text, you will be taken to the Amnesty International report on human rights in Iraq for the year 2001. Read it, and then tell me that Amnesty doesn't care about what happened there under Hussein. Why don't you at least take a smidgen of time to look things up before you spout off about them?

You care more about gitmo terrorists who would kill Americans if they could, than our military. You like it when lies are spread that can be used against America. You agree with Durbin & his ilk. Well I don't and I do think they are the traitors.

No. I care more about traditional American values than I do about torturers or gitmo-held terrorists. I care more about the America that never would have dreamed of torturing or humiliating prisoners. I care more about the America that never would have imagined holding people in detention without trial, charge, or right of habeas corpus. That America is dying, and the pro-torture radical right are the ones killing it.

Don't lecture me on concentration camps. My Dad was there for the liberation of two so I've heard the stories.

My dad was there? When did I "lecture" you about concentration camps? You're the one who inferred that invading Normandy to push back the Germans wasn't worth it. You're the one who needs to explain himself, not me.

Using your own logic, I could easily state that you care more about Nazi German scum than the people whom they oppressed.

You are just another "I hate Bush" guy so you fit right in with the liberal Dem obstructionists who have no interest in fixing anything.

You are a lost cause in my book. You don't get it.

Ditto.

[speaker]

Originally posted by buffknut
.............. Thankfully GWB gets this & is doing something about it.

No, I would be very happy if "gwb" did something about anything, besides driving the world down to the lowest common denominator. He's a little kid playing with tin soldiers.
Buffknut--You are the emptiest poster in a long time . You know no facts and get to be a bore with your repeats. You are a true ditto head.

[Linda_D]

8 Dec With only 1 dissenting vote, the U.S. Congress declared war on Japan.
11 Dec Germany and Italy declared war on the U.S., which then recognized a state of war with these nations. --Encyclopedia of American History, edited by Richard B. Morris, Professor of History, Columbia University, copyright 1953, 1961, 1965.

It seems that it's buffknut and the other Bush supporters are the ones revising history to suit their interests.

BTW, nice rebuttals, Speaker and Pundit.

[buffalojoe]

If I'm correct congress declared war on Iraq ............

pundit you couldn't handle traditional american heritage...first of all 60 years ago you may have been arrested for the way you talk about the president..

you liberals don't realise how you effect the war...how you indirectlky get our kids killed..The enemy feeds off you emotions and anti goverment....we can't torture the enemy we have to fight by the rules of war.we shouldn't be there ...we shouldn't do this and we shouldn't do that..well guess what, the press is right with you. They put allot of pressure on our commanders to change the strategy on how we fight a war. In doing this we fight conventional and that puts are trrops in a bad situation because our commanders are trying to be politically correct,,,,,
I left the democratic party 3 years ago because the democrates listen to the likes of all those knot heads in massachuetts... and the flamming liberals of California..Honestly I wish we can have half the country and you take the other half. You would be bankrupt in 6 months.
Other then that I love you all. my door is always open, i will feed or help anybody I can....
As I'm getting older and I'm losing more and more friends to death. I'm at the point that I'm madder at the politicians that these kids are dying and most of them couldn't leagally have a drink yet. Then I am at the war itself.

[WestSideJohn]

you liberals don't realise how you effect the war...how you indirectly get our kids killed...

No, sending our kids off to war based on bad information is what gets them killed. I'm really tired of people blaming war protesters or Newsweek or whoever for our soldiers dying in Iraq and excusing the man who sent them there in the first place.

[granpabob]

we lock up terrorist with out trail just like japanese and germans were locked up without trail during WWII. except that many of the japanese and germans were US citizens back then not foreign terrorist.
my war was handcuffed with so many regulations on our side that we could never win now we have forgotten that and are handcuffing our men again
the middle east has the idea that they should not trust america because they every time we back some one against terroist leaders we get cold feet and leave. if we leave irag now and let our backers stand alone and die no one in that part of the world will ever trust us again.
whether we were right or wrong in going there is old news, look what happened to our freinds in Vietnam when we left. if we leave without a very strough govenment in place thousand will be left defenseless .face it we have to make sure that when we go they will be ready to stand up.
women are in school now. all the villages have utilies and schools if we leave befor they can defend themselves they will be punished for over stepping the old bounderies.
the world is watching to see if we run home with a job half finished once again. this time we cant blaim it on the UN. this time its just us. we leave irag befor they are ready and no one will ever trust us to back them again.

[buffknut]

Speaker & others, it makes me happy to know I am "empty" to you liberal Democrats. You can be happy with Kennedy, Kerry, & the rest who truly do not take the war on terror seriously.

As I've said, this forum is hopelessly overwhelmingly liberal Democrats. I've resigned myself to that fact. Thankfully the country continues the long-term trend of moving away from your positions, as I have.

So I'll still contribute every so often because that is my right (priviledge actually), even though I am not as smart as you. I'm comfortable with my beliefs. You can choose to ignore me and insult me if you wish, that is your right also.

I thought this forum would discuss solutions to problems facing Buffalo & EC. But it can't because of your misguided hatred of yours and my President. It continues to blind you & infect too many threads.

You are all probably honorable people. Get some therapy and maybe you'll see the light.

A couple brews will do it for me!

Enjoy your weekend.

[speaker]

I don't think this board is overwelmingly liberal--or democrat. Congress said yes to war based on the irrefutable evidence gwb and cheney etc, presented that there were WMD.
Bush's "bring em on" , totally ignoring wisdom and experience. After Nam the American people proclaimed, as a cohesive whole, "we'll never do that again."
I said it before, and I reiterate--I was an unaffiliated republican most of my life, but when I witnessed what the republican/conservative party did to Clinton during his presidential years, I affiliated democrat, and I'm proud of it. I still vote as if there were no labels, but at least I've made my stand.
I long for the peace and contentment (that is, except the the R/C 's constant nagging, pouting and sniping) that the Clinton years brought to the USA.