New Stadium Plans Releases - #smh

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

There has to be some type of return. If not you might as well just throw the money down a hole. If you can't show some type of return either by taxes generated by paying a property tax, sales tax generated by ticket/venue sales, something.. what is the point?

Well the money would come from NYS. The return would be keeping the tax revenue in the state. I do not know the exact number but I think it's like $20M or $40M a year. There is the return I guess.

Let us say the magic number is 400,000,000 of money generated by the net tax payers in the state of NY. Figure that number over 20 years. $20,000,000 a year. What would property/school taxes generated from that property? If the games were sold at 80% of capacity how much sales tax would 8 home games generate? and so on...

It's not just sales tax. You have the tax from the income for the team. As I said above I think that's $20M right there.



Like I have said before...I doubt it will get pulled off. If Buffalo had a better economy there would be countless awesome options.

If you want a 100% private funded project you need to be willing to give up some stuff to make it worth their while. For example:

The value of Marine Drive is outstanding now because of CanalSide.
The value of St. John Townhomes is outstanding now because of the Medical Campus.
The value of the Perry Projects could be outstanding because of a stadium/convention center.

So say you find a developer that agrees to:

Build an equal number of units found in the Marine Drive, St. John and Perry complexes around the new stadium/convention center in exchange for the land rights of all 3 parcels and the construction of the new stadium/convention center.

The Stadium/Convention center would be leased to the team for a long term profit. The medical center parcel would be developed for a near term profit. The CanalSide parcel would be developed for a near term profit. Additionally, the commercial elements of the replaced housing would belong to the developer as well.

What you would also do is create in a matter of a couple of years one of the densest urban populations in the COB. This in turn would create spin off development in surrounding areas due to the density.

Now before anyone craps on the idea...I know it would not happen in Buffalo. The idea is based off similar projects in Charlotte and San Diego where the market is different. But this is how it's done in cities that are doing well.

[steven]

It is supposed to have a convention center as well

[WNYresident]

It is supposed to have a convention center as well

And that will make money for the company that runs the conventions... Those conventions might generate some sales tax that will fund someone's bloated NYS labor contract/pension/bene's... But what does it do for the families on Madison St in Buffalo? Or Adams St?

You will take the people (jobs) running at the current convention center and move them over to the new convention center... But will there be any net gain of jobs worth taking my money (your money, the net tax payers money) into this project?

I know if we get a new convention center that holds more events I'll make more money because of the business I'm in. Even so I don't think that would justify someone else subsidizing the venture with other net tax payer money. Have to show some return for the entire group that is funding it.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

And that will make money for the company that runs the conventions... Those conventions might generate some sales tax that will fund someone's bloated NYS labor contract/pension/bene's... But what does it do for the families on Madison St in Buffalo? Or Adams St?

People have to make money Tony. Not sure why you have such a problem with it.

Honestly, the people on Adams St. benefit by having a better economy.

You will take the people (jobs) running at the current convention center and move them over to the new convention center... But will there be any net gain of jobs worth taking my money (your money, the net tax payers money) into this project?

It depends. IF, and it's a big IF, the convention center was moved near the casino I could see an increase in convention business. While Buffalo is never going to compete with San Diego or Las Vegas..it would be one of a few middle of the road convention cities where you had a casino next door to the convention center. That's a selling point.

Furthermore, this could actually have a beneficial impact on the community. If the casino downtown were able to cater to convention visitors, they would be able to raise the stakes at the table. This would in turn make the local person less able to spend money there. Similar to how 'locals' in Vegas never gamble on the strip and instead go to station casinos.

I know if we get a new convention center that holds more events I'll make more money because of the business I'm in. Even so I don't think that would justify someone else subsidizing the venture with other net tax payer money. Have to show some return for the entire group that is funding it.

What you're not grasping is Buffalo is always going to have a convention center. If it can be improved you should explore that.

[WNYresident]

Let people make all the money they want. I just don't think it should be at someone else's expense.

[Bringthetruth]

Let people make all the money they want. I just don't think it should be at someone else's expense.

They're doing it now and we have nothing to show for it. Cmon Res you're better than that

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

This group is nothing more than a bunch of shysters. Here are some gems from the live chat:


He said this facility will be year-round, which will allow it to work. "Year-round revenue."

The first bit of BS:

• This project should create 10,000 "living-scale" jobs.
• Our budget of $1.4 billion will realize more than $900M in union, livingscale wages.
• Minority hiring, apprenticeship training, we'll need new union members to man and staff the manhours we need.
• We know with our friends in the labor community - this is a union town and we are motivated by the idea that we can improve the economy by living scale wages, he says. We envision not just cultural and multi-sport, but it will be a greenspace. "This will be a structure within a park."
• Union representative speaking now. This project would keep union jobs going, appreticeships.
• Union rep: If you would get behind this, apprentice programs would continue.

So these guys do not have the money to pull this off but they are already buying the labor vote by promising everything they want. That makes a lot of f*cking sense.

On Transportation:

• Council Member Rivera: One problem is transportation, how do you get 74,000 to the Outer Harbor?
• Rivera: "People look at how practical it is." How do you move traffic in and out?
• Rivera: If you want people to buy in to project, you have to show them it's practical.
• Stracick: Traffic at Orchard Park stadium is worse than any place in any NFL community.
• Stracick: It will be 72,000 people, not 74,000.
• Pat Freeman: We already have bad traffic around Ralph Wilson Stadium.
• Hasiotis: We feel that some of the great attractions to this site is we can find solutions. HKS wouldn't be involved if the didn't think traffic flow could be addressed. We have five or six years to build this out.

So the traffic will suck just as much as the current stadium. Ya. That's some real freaking progress.


And then the money shot:

• Stracick: The fact of the matter, if we get the land, we then can move forward, bring sponsors we have already contacted. I won't name the sponsors until we get the land.
• The rest of the money will come in from the NFL, unions and we hope the governor will put "X number of dollars in."

They will not name where they are getting their money from UNTIL they NFTA signs over the land.

Honestly, if the City of Buffalo falls for this scam...they deserve what they get.

[HipKat]

I have to think that if this group was not pretty legit, the firm that's designing it would not even take their phone calls.

As far as traffic, it sucks at every major sporting venue. Parking?? Never been to the old Yankee Stadium, have you?

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

I have to think that if this group was not pretty legit, the firm that's designing it would not even take their phone calls.

Not sure I agree with that. Don't get me wrong, HKS is legit but they also charge for their services. The one guy has millions, so I do not think it a reach for him to spend some cash to get this far.

I just don't think this company has what it takes to pull this off. The fact that they will not release funding until they get the land...even after saying they would show the numbers today is concerning.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

As far as traffic, it sucks at every major sporting venue. Parking?? Never been to the old Yankee Stadium, have you?

While traffic is never going to be perfect...it can get better.

[granpabob]

try to imagine the route five sky way with 72000 people.
The Ralph has 12000 parking spaces and every lawn field and yard around it for parking. I know the dream of public transit is out there. so far it just a dream. If you extend the "subway" to the stadium that will only help Buffalo the rest of us in the burbs have cars. The trafic at the Ralph has been talked about how many 4 lane roads lead to the outer harbor. side streets with low speeds and red lights dont move trafic that leaves only the Skyway route 5

[WNYresident]

This group is nothing more than a bunch of shysters. Here are some gems from the live chat:


He said this facility will be year-round, which will allow it to work. "Year-round revenue."

The first bit of BS:

• This project should create 10,000 "living-scale" jobs.
• Our budget of $1.4 billion will realize more than $900M in union, livingscale wages.
• Minority hiring, apprenticeship training, we'll need new union members to man and staff the manhours we need.
• We know with our friends in the labor community - this is a union town and we are motivated by the idea that we can improve the economy by living scale wages, he says. We envision not just cultural and multi-sport, but it will be a greenspace. "This will be a structure within a park."
• Union representative speaking now. This project would keep union jobs going, appreticeships.
• Union rep: If you would get behind this, apprentice programs would continue.

So these guys do not have the money to pull this off but they are already buying the labor vote by promising everything they want. That makes a lot of f*cking sense.

On Transportation:

• Council Member Rivera: One problem is transportation, how do you get 74,000 to the Outer Harbor?
• Rivera: "People look at how practical it is." How do you move traffic in and out?
• Rivera: If you want people to buy in to project, you have to show them it's practical.
• Stracick: Traffic at Orchard Park stadium is worse than any place in any NFL community.
• Stracick: It will be 72,000 people, not 74,000.
• Pat Freeman: We already have bad traffic around Ralph Wilson Stadium.
• Hasiotis: We feel that some of the great attractions to this site is we can find solutions. HKS wouldn't be involved if the didn't think traffic flow could be addressed. We have five or six years to build this out.

So the traffic will suck just as much as the current stadium. Ya. That's some real freaking progress.


And then the money shot:

• Stracick: The fact of the matter, if we get the land, we then can move forward, bring sponsors we have already contacted. I won't name the sponsors until we get the land.
• The rest of the money will come in from the NFL, unions and we hope the governor will put "X number of dollars in."

They will not name where they are getting their money from UNTIL they NFTA signs over the land.

Honestly, if the City of Buffalo falls for this scam...they deserve what they get.

There ya go...

screwed up right off the bat...

Here is the idea I came up with a few nights ago...

This project should create 10,000 "living-scale" jobs.

I don't believe that unless the local "Erie County Democratic Party Lead By Jeremy Zellner" turns it into a patronage Pit. Erie County Water Authority style...

[300miles]

Like I said, they're just wasting our time. When asked about financing the guy just says he'll figure all that out once he gets the land rights.

Riiiiigghht.

[WNYresident]

Like I said, they're just wasting our time. When asked about financing the guy just says he'll figure all that out once he gets the land rights.

Riiiiigghht.

This screams insanity....

Our budget of $1.4 billion will realize more than $900M in union, livingscale wages.
Minority hiring, apprenticeship training, we'll need new union members to man and staff the manhours we need.
We know with our friends in the labor community - this is a union town and we are motivated by the idea that we can improve the economy by living scale wages, he says. We envision not just cultural and multi-sport, but it will be a greenspace. "This will be a structure within a park."
Union representative speaking now. This project would keep union jobs going, appreticeships.
Union rep: If you would get behind this, apprentice programs would continue.

No way... Tell the "Union" to go to some other community...

If you are going to do this.. do it the right way and do it to be better than other communities.

[leftWNYbecauseofBS]

Here is the idea I came up with a few nights ago...

That's funny because the suggested doing the airport in San Diego like that a while ago.

As I said in our PM, there needs to be a discussion with all of the details. This is not something that should be brushed off.
The fact that their are no details to the plan provided today means nothing to me. They are not a real player.