A follower of Christ perspective on the elections

[buffy]

Originally Posted by buffy
Agree, but, then you have to question leadership on why there aren't good jobs.

I think people need to make up their minds on whether government creates jobs or not.

If it does, then they should start by giving Obama credit for creating over 5.3 million new jobs during his first term, with millions more on the way.

If it doesn't, then they should blame private businesses & the free market for not innovating, inventing, or producing their way to creating more jobs.

They don't get to do both.

i'm not a business person, but I'm informed enough to know that ObamaCare mandates will hurt small business and may affect their growth. I've also heard that Obama is heavy handed with regulations that are seen as unfriendly to businesses. And finally, growing the national debt to 16 Trillion is not exactly a good business stimulis. that's what I meant by questioning leadership.

[Bringthetruth]

GOD IS NOT A PRODUCT OF AMERICA

The goals of the Puritans who established the Massachusetts Bay Colony was to establish a theocracy that would allow the state to force all people to live and worship in an orthodox way. The theory was based on the teachings of John Calvin.

Source(s):

American History - Ray Allen Billington
A People's History of the United States - Howard Zinn,

Notice....this would be a theocracy that would allow the state to FORCE ALL PEOPLE TO LIVE AND WORSHIP IN AN ORTHODOX WAY.

It is this mindset that is at the root of Christian Conservativism. When the Puritans were in the Netherlands the society there was too liberal for them. These Puritans wanted a place where they could worship God freely, out from under the rule of England.

They came to what would become America, and proceeded to establish a theocracy which was really no more than a religious cult whose main aim as a part of advancing their interpretation of the Bible was to FORCE all people to live and worship in an orthodox way.

Today the same false misconception of what a theocracy (God ruled government) really is, has dominated the landscape of Christiandom and politics. Even non-Christian conservatives wanted to get in on the prospect of controlling others and thereby also being able to control and foster the concentration of the wealth among themselves.

This quest was so desired by Christian Conservatives that it was easier to join with a Mormon to help accomplish their quest. No doubt some Conservative Republicans only wanted to protect their wealth and that of many corporations, but then there were indeed Christian Conservatives that believed that somehow they could legislate righteousness. Their aim, a Christian nation under the mistaken belief that a nation can be righteous without being born again. America had become a long time referred as One Nation Under God, because the Founders believed and said so. Yet the Word of God teaches us that the "individual" in the New Testament is either a "child" of God or a child of the Devil. There is no middle of the road.

Its' impossible to have a Christian nation without the nation being Christian, which can only come about by a nation becoming Born Again.

So what was the quest of Christian Conservatism today; to FORCE Christianity just as the Puritans aimed to do on an increasingly more liberal society. There were many Super PACs attempting to force the vote, even to the point of conspiring with those who would collectively spend more than $1 Billion to [buy] an election, and practice voter suppression techniques in certain minority and other ethnic communities.

No doubt the notion of a Christian nation, one nation under God is indeed eroding. But this is not because of Abortion and Same Sex Marriage. The notion of a Christian nation is eroding first because you cannot legislate righteousness, never could and it was never the plan of God, and because there is an erosion of the Kingdom concept of evangelism where every Believer is a soul winner charged with the responsibility of reconciling man back to God in the same way that Christ was in God reconciling man back to Himself.

In the place of a Kingdom evangelistic community, has been the development of a Christian narcissism where everything is about "me" the individual and little to no dying to oneself that others might be able to live through your personal sharing of the gospel of the Kingdom and Christ.

Challenge your thinking! Challenge your theology!

Have you been seduced to believe that America is a Christian nation without evangelism? Ask yourself what a Christian nation really is, and then ask yourself how does a Christian nation Biblically come about?

You will find that there is no nation that is Christian that has not been evangelized, where the people have been first reconciled, and made to be a nation of Kings and Priest by the blood of Jesus, as John the Revelator tells us, and a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation and peculiar people, who are called to show forth the praises of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light according to the Apostle Peter.

Paul the Apostle told us that we were transferred out of the dominion (kingdom) of darkness, into the Kingdom of the Son of God's love. He (Paul) said that the Kingdom of God is not meat or drink (has nothing to do with dietary laws) but is righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. These three elements (righteousness, peace and joy) of the Kingdom of God are irrespective of any nation and only take up residency in those who become the people of God no matter where you live.

So the next time someone tries to convince you that America is supposed to be a Christian nation, say no, a Kingdom nation of believers who have submitted themselves to the sovereignty of the King. But then also ask yourself, what is your contribution to evangelism, personal evangelism, so that others would have the opportunity to become a citizen of the Kingdom of God just as you have. Remember, you can't legislate righteousness. That is not how we advance the Kingdom and it is not how we become a Christian nation, no matter who tells you otherwise. Please, no longer attempt to blend the ideals of a Christian America with the Puritan politics that would seek to establish it.

This is why our country has went down hill , we didn't know what our true role was when it came to government and people in general. Believers wake up !

[Mindcrime]

i'm not a business person, but I'm informed enough to know that ObamaCare mandates will hurt small business and may affect their growth. I've also heard that Obama is heavy handed with regulations that are seen as unfriendly to businesses. And finally, growing the national debt to 16 Trillion is not exactly a good business stimulis. that's what I meant by questioning leadership.

ObamaCare won't affect 95-98% of small businesses. And Obama has been extremely business-friendly with multiple tax cuts, incentives and common-sense regulations.

[steven]

Originally Posted by Bringthetruth View Post
God never legislates morality he gives you a choice and says in his word " follow my statutes"

So is a professed Christian man voting for and or supporting someone that goes against what you perceive as gods word "following god statues"?

Were do u draw the line or do u at all? If the guy that supports gay marriage ( something u have frequently pointed out is against your beliefs ) is ok what about the adulterer, the murderer, The idolater?

[Bringthetruth]

So is a professed Christian man voting for and or supporting someone that goes against what you perceive as gods word "following god statues"?

Were do u draw the line or do u at all? If the guy that supports gay marriage ( something u have frequently pointed out is against your beliefs ) is ok what about the adulterer, the murderer, The idolater?

Steven as non follower of Christ, how could you understand what the Spirit of God is saying @ doing in the earth, when it's spiritually discerned ?


If I vote for Romney or Obama I'm not voting Christian if that is the basis of the vote. One sin is as the other be it abortion, same sex marriage or disenfranchisement of the orphans and widows, the elderly and the like. What did Paul tell the rich to do? He told them not to lust after uncertain riches, be careful to maintain good works, to not defraud their brother, and to pay everyone to include women just wages in righteousness.

So its not just the abortion issue or same sex marriage. I'm not to vote Christian I'm to vote Kingdom and live the Kingdom driven life that no matter who is in office I won't be drawn into such a big lie of Christianity as a nation and instead I'll be about my Father's business reconciling man back to God.



Jesus wants me to side with His party. You cannot and should not legislate righteousness. It doesn't make you a righteous nation. It makes one a religious zealot dictator under the guise of Christianity. Did you not know these things went on in Jesus day and he never tried to make it an issue to those who didn't follow God. But he did expect those who followed him, not to yield to it MYSELF.

Problem is, God didn't give us democracy. Plato gave us democracy. God gave us Kingdom theocracy and told us not to depend on the worlds system but to depend on Him, and Him alone.

PS I knew who was going to win, I told you long before the election. Even said I would not post on SUWNY anymore if Obama lost.

[steven]

Steven as non follower of Christ, how could you understand what the Spirit of God is saying @ doing in the earth, when it's spiritually discerned ?

Thats why I asked you.

On its face you probably think I am trying to be spiteful. I am not I have asked this question of others IRL both family and friends (90% of my family is Christian and did vote Obama). One relative a very staunch Christian did not becuse of abortion and gay marraige.

Some Christians think its OK to vote for a candidate that will push the same sex marriage agenda and abortion. Others are horrified at the thought. Me personally I don t care who you play hide the salami with. And Roe vs Wade is the law of the land so I accept it.

But then that isn't part of my moral compass or faith. However I do have moral beliefs that I wont violate, I would never vote for someone that was a murder or supported murder for hire,. If a mugger/supporter of mugging was running for office I wouldst vote for him/her. If a guy/gal that clubed baby seals was running for office I wouldn't vote them.. All of those things are against my moral compass and the very though of supporting someone who supports those things is distasteful.

You for whatever reason dont follow your moral compass/faith on who you choose to make your elected leader on earth.

when you say things like:

One sin is as the other be it abortion, same sex marriage or disenfranchisement of the orphans and widows, the elderly and the like.

You seem somewhat intelligent and therefor must be aware that both candidates are rich (albeit one is richer then the other) and both candidates have been responsible for both job loss and job gain. Only 1 was all three and that's who you chose

If I vote for Romney or Obama I'm not voting Christian if that is the basis of the vote.

Then you shouldnt be on here all the time telling people to "live the kingdom" its obvious you don't even follow your own teachings. You preach "living the kingdom" and "what god wants" then vote the opposite.

I wont badger you about anymore as I dont think you can give a reason why. I really am not trying to pull your chain here but it seems very hypocritical to me that one day your talking about living and abiding by the word and the next your supporting someone that doesn't.

[Over The Valley]

Then you shouldnt be on here all the time telling people to "live the kingdom" its obvious you don't even follow your own teachings. You preach "living the kingdom" and "what god wants" then vote the opposite.

The truth is far clearer than some will pretend it to be.

[Bringthetruth]

Thats why I asked you.

On its face you probably think I am trying to be spiteful. I am not I have asked this question of others IRL both family and friends (90% of my family is Christian and did vote Obama). One relative a very staunch Christian did not becuse of abortion and gay marraige.

Some Christians think its OK to vote for a candidate that will push the same sex marriage agenda and abortion. Others are horrified at the thought. Me personally I don t care who you play hide the salami with. And Roe vs Wade is the law of the land so I accept it.

But then that isn't part of my moral compass or faith. However I do have moral beliefs that I wont violate, I would never vote for someone that was a murder or supported murder for hire,. If a mugger/supporter of mugging was running for office I wouldst vote for him/her. If a guy/gal that clubed baby seals was running for office I wouldn't vote them.. All of those things are against my moral compass and the very though of supporting someone who supports those things is distasteful.

You for whatever reason dont follow your moral compass/faith on who you choose to make your elected leader on earth.

when you say things like:



You seem somewhat intelligent and therefor must be aware that both candidates are rich (albeit one is richer then the other) and both candidates have been responsible for both job loss and job gain. Only 1 was all three and that's who you chose



Then you shouldnt be on here all the time telling people to "live the kingdom" its obvious you don't even follow your own teachings. You preach "living the kingdom" and "what god wants" then vote the opposite.

I wont badger you about anymore as I dont think you can give a reason why. I really am not trying to pull your chain here but it seems very hypocritical to me that one day your talking about living and abiding by the word and the next your supporting someone that doesn't.

You really make me think how confused you really are man. I'm saddened by it.

When I LEARNED THAT YOUNG MEN were sent to die in vein under the disguise of protecting Americans THAT WAS MY MORAL COMPASS being an (EX military Vet) that I wouldn't vote for a party that promoted and started false wars. These young men and women were courageous enough to defend America thinking they were doing a noble thing, but once they went to war and discovered it was under a false pretense. Many committed suicide because they themselves had a moral compass
(a conscious).

President Obama didn't say he wanted women to commit abortion, he just gave them an option,...... the right to choose to have one or not.

President Obama didn't say he wanted to have same sex marriage he gave them a right to. He's married with two daughters. The way you wrote , it sounded as if he was in a same sex marriage himself, or wanted HIS wife to have abortions. That's not true.

His family life displayed to Americans has been excellent and many were waiting for something to go wrong within his own family to point the finger at them. He's a real guy with a real family with nothing to hide.

God the father doesn't want you or I to cheat each other , commit adultery, murder each other it's against his Holy Nature.

But he gave you and I the right to choose, God gave us laws which were given as a guideline to humanity on what is right. Man ultimately decides because he's a free moral agent. I hope you understand me know, but if you don't it's ok.